Shaking the pillars of heaven with Michael Myers

[Khorne23]

I sem to be fairly cross-pollinated by Friday the 13th lately, so here's another gem from the documentary about part seven I'm in the process of watching. In an effort to pep up the series, the director (he also wrote or co-wrote, apparently) tried to come up with an opponent who was more of a match for jason.

Could such a thing be done with Halloween? Give Michael a worthy opponent? Here are some ideas, off the top of my head, that wouldn't strain credibility:

1) In the vein of Michael being the lesser of two evils, what about the Shape doing the dance with another serial killer? Henry Lee Lucas and the Green River Killer apparently traveled extensively, so Michael's opponent could either be a Haddonfield native (dare I say...a copy cat?) or a drifter with a secret. Imagine the confusion that would come when either this other serial killer is caught, but the murders continue, or everyone thinks its Michael killing, only to discover that someone new has "taken the field".

2) Give Michael a professional fighter to knock heads with, like a martial arts champion or a special forces soldier. This would lead to a very action oriented film.

3) Rusty Shock wrote some very good fan fiction about Halloween back in 1999, and any number of his ideas would make a fine film. In this instance, what if a demon or similar "high wattage supernatural being" paid Haddonfield a visit. I imagine this was the premise behind the idea of a Halloween/ Hellraiser cross-over I heard about, that the puzzle box and Lament Configuration showed up in the midwest.

4) Ploughing the H4 - H6 continuity back into the series, what if the Cult of Thorn decides it's going to preform Michael's mission for him, or that they want to get even with Big Mike for killing so many memebrs at ythe climax to H6?

5) Very mundanely, Michael could knock heads with "gangstas" from Chicago or St. Louis trying to open up new markets in Haddonfield and other mid-western towns. Once more, Michael becomes the lesser of two evils. A motorcycle gang or even the official Mafia could also be drafted.

6) Or how about this one, which would be about as big and grand a film as you could get without larger than life supernatural elements. I'm sure most list members have heard of the early eighties Patrick Swayze movie "Red Dawn", about a Societ invasion of the United States. Okay, what about another go at that premise (or, you could substitute a militia group for the Russians, trying to take over territory, a la John Brown and Harper's Ferry), with the phantom of Haddonfield as the resistance.

7) Finally, as seven seasons of Buffy the Vampire Slayer told us, high schools and colleges can have some nastiness emerge from their hallowed halls. Maybe someone in Haddonfield cooked up a moster (can you say Frankenstein?) for Michael to rock with.

Whaddaya think?

[Laow-Z]

So what does the title of this thread have to do with anything:confused:

[Khorne23]

Uhm...I dunno. Maybe a premise for a ninth film? Interesting new things to do with the characters? After all, it has been concluded by plenty of folks, ones who make the movies and here on the OHMB, that, if a movie has Michael Myers in it, its a Halloween movie.

[NCamp]

no no no no and no.

Thats not what the series is about. It would be crap. This isnt Buffy, and this isnt Lapracaun in the Hood.

The best guy to "rock" with Michael was Tommy in part 6 T-Cut, when he beat the shit out of him with the pipe.

[fanatic986]

The first choice sounds best. I don't really think overt supernatural elements would feel right in a Halloween film.
And I can't picture him fighting Jackie Chan or The Rock. Too silly.

[theoutfieldguy]

Originally posted by fanatic986
And I can't picture him fighting Jackie Chan or The Rock. Too silly.

For real.I just got a terrible visual of the Rock using some random finishing manuver on the Shape...yeah,thats gonna keep him down.How'a bout the peoples elbow?LMAO.

[fanatic986]

Originally posted by theoutfieldguy
For real.I just got a terrible visual of the Rock using some random finishing manuver on the Shape...yeah,thats gonna keep him down.How'a bout the peoples elbow?LMAO.

And you thought Busta Rhymes was bad! YUCK!!!:D

[Khorne23]

You know, the more I think about it, the more I feel this is a direction which the series has to go in, or, at least explore SOMEHOW. If a new premise is not injected into the series, in some way soon, all we're going to get is tired old attempts to remake the original, and, as we're all IMMENSELY fond of saying, endlessly, it can't be done. The first Halloween was lightning in a bottle, and you can't recapture that.

Lord knows there have been enough attempts.

I feel that it is a waste of time and effort, and an affront to the movie going public, to keep recycling the same formula over and over again: Michael cheats death, Michael returns to Haddonfield, Michael kills lots and lots of people, Michael meets a dubious demise.

For fuck's sake, you don't even need a writer any more.

If there's an attempt to insert a back story (Michael has a sister, Michael is the result of an ancient curse, Michael's sister gets even with him, Michael lives under his old house), the fans go fucking nuts and don't buy it. "Its not pure Halloween anymore", and many a navel is contemplated on the "injustice" of it all.

The character is established. Lets see what can be done with it. I don't give a flying fuck up the ass anymore exactly what's done, so long as the movie:

1) Doesn't insult Michael or the fans

2) Takes itself seriously

3) A legitimate effort is made to produce a quality film

Now, unless you want to get loopy (Michael in space! Michael hosts a late night talk show! Michael works as a porno star!) there are only a few options within the premise that won't have people rioting in the streets. Michael meeting a more equal oponent is one, and taking Michael out of Haddonfield is another.

If these options aren't at least given serious consideration, then we're doomed to endless BAD remakes of the first movie. Now, I love the series, but I'm also poor as dirt, and cannot afford to waste my money on some more deep fried shit like Resurrection.

[FTL]

One word: Scarfo

[Jeanette]

Worst idea ever :(

[Laow-Z]

Originally posted by FTL
One word: Scarfo
You plan on sicking Nikky on him;)

[fanatic986]

I think where you're coming from is interesting. I think you've got some good things to say.:D

[EvilWithin]

I just can't buy into this concept at all. The whole problem with adding an equal opponent to Michael is that it makes Michael seem less than he was. The only way that FVJ worked was because the equal they had given was another killer with a good fan base. You can't just make some character who hasn't been established fight against a character who has a fan base like Michael does, especially if you expect him to actually match up against Michael. The thing that makes Michael Myers so good is the fact that nobody can match up against him. A martial artist would do nothing but kick and punch Michael, until Michael caught him leg and broke it... that plot would go no where. There is no way I'm going to sit through a movie while some guy kicks the crap out of Michael.... they tried it with Busta and it failed, miserably. The formula works that they're using... they just need to drop it down a little. Stop trying to live in the era of webcams, and just go back to Michael being a killing machine. But bringing him a equal who doesn't have a huge fan base is going to flop because I know like myself not many will want to see some no name beating the crap out of Michael Myers... if it was somebody who already had a fan base... like from an earlier movie it may work, but just some no name guy... definitely not.

[Khorne23]

Okay. let's look at how a more equal opponent could be brought in to confront Michael. The argument has been made that the only reason that "Freddy vs. Jason" succeeded was because the two fan bases of the characetrs were brought together...that the characters had been previously established, and had their credentials established.

How to do so with an opponent forthe Shape, in a manner that respects the material and which has an internal logic of its own?

The key obstacle to me seems to be setting up the confrontation...making it believable (or believable enough) for these two characters to be at odds. Once more, in "Freddy vs. Jason", the bona fides of the characters themselves allowed the confrontation to be set up. If there is to be no cross-over between Halloween and another series, then that "trick" can't be used for an opponent for the Shape.

Some other reason has to be found.

As for who that opponent would be, my suggestion of another murderer moving through town was well received, and here's another one which would allow for a good bout and would not strain credibility over much...and, in the end, would still have Michael winning. He would simply have been pushed further to gain that win.

What about a special forces soldier? A Green Beret or Army Ranger or something like that (heck, since Loomis is British, you could even work the SAS in). I'm not talking about some action movie hero, like Rambo, but a highly trained professional. Here's someone who, by the very nature of their training, would not directly confront Michael unless he absolutely had to. This person would recognize the danger inherent in the Shape, and try to think out a win.

My point is that more has to be done with the characters and premises of the Halloween universe. They are established, now the film makers have to explore them, and having things happen to Michael, instead of Michael just happen to others, is a way to do it. The writers and directors obviously aren't able to tell a story unfolding against the backdrop of a "Michael Myers rampage" so some other innovation is necessary...DESPERATELY necessary, I might add.

[fanatic986]

No versus films please. FvJ was ok, but any other matchup would seem contrived and turn out terrible.
Michael shouldn't fight Freddy or Jason or any other cinematic baddie.
I still kinda like the idea of another normal killer, introduced in a Halloween movie, confronting Myers.
:)

[Khorne23]

Obviously, a versus film handled poorly is just a waste of time, but the argument was made at the time that, typically, a versus film does appear when two or more franchises need to be "perked up" and revitalized. I do think that such an argument can be made in the case of Halloween...that the series has stagnated to some extent, and that it does need a breath of fresh air injected into it.

Aftr all, wasn't that what H20 was all about...revitalizing the series?

[gerry d]

Originally posted by Khorne23


2) Give Michael a professional fighter to knock heads with, like a martial arts champion or a special forces soldier. This would lead to a very action oriented film.

5) Very mundanely, Michael could knock heads with "gangstas" from Chicago or St. Louis trying to open up new markets in Haddonfield and other mid-western towns. Once more, Michael becomes the lesser of two evils. A motorcycle gang or even the official Mafia could also be drafted.

Whaddaya think?

They are not exactly Horror situations are they?

What are you trying to turn Halloween into an Action packed movie?.

Why would Michael be intrested in the gangstas opening up new markets?.Michael is only intrested in getting rid of family members.He is not a Vigilante.

cheers

[Franchise]

He was already up against a martial artist: they called him Freddie.

[6Michael6Myers6]

I agree...Halloween H20 revitalized the series but then Halloween Resurrection came along and stagnated the series (after the death of Laurie)...in my opinion, the only thing they have left to do is bring back past characters to confront michael...in a screenplay i'm currrently writing, I have Lindsay Wallace from H1, Tommy Doyle, stephen, and john...disregarding halloween resurrection, the only reason michael has to kill is to kill his family...if you go through another sequel without a family member (except Laurie in HR) or if we don't start tying up loose ends soon, the series will go to shit...plain and simple...

[FTL]

Originally posted by Laow-Z
You plan on sicking Nikky on him;)


Jimmy

[Khorne23]

Originally posted by gerry d
They are not exactly Horror situations are they?

Horror as horror does. If a person is in the right mood, "Trainspotting" and "Jurassic Park" and "2001: A Space Odyssey" can be horror movies. I've always seen "Alien" as a science fiction film, but plenty of other folks see it as a horror movie.

What are you trying to turn Halloween into an Action packed movie?.

There is no reason why a movie cannot be action packed and scary as hell. I double dog dare ya to prove otherwise :-)

Why would Michael be intrested in the gangstas opening up new markets?.Michael is only intrested in getting rid of family members.He is not a Vigilante.

See my "Territorial Michael" thread for reasons why this may not be 100% true. Basically, Michael is going to defend himself from things which try to hurt him. Anyone would, and he still does have that human emotion or motivation or whatever. Plus, plenty of predators amongst the animal kingdom will fight to protect their territory. If Michael sees his "franchise" as the lone homicidal maniac for Haddonfield threatened, it is not out of the realm of possibility that he would try to eliminate whatever it was that was trying to "horn in on his action".

[fanatic986]

Michael fighting any other horror movie icon, be it Freddy, Pinhead, Chucky...anyone...would be terrible.

[gerry d]

Originally posted by Khorne23
Horror as horror does. If a person is in the right mood, "Trainspotting" and "Jurassic Park" and "2001: A Space Odyssey" can be horror movies.


I must have missed something Khorne23 but when was "Trainspotting" ever a horror movie?.

There might have been some disturbing scenes but it certainly wasn't a horror movie.

cheers

[Khorne23]

I'm just reporting what I read in "The Video Hound's Horror Show: 999 Hair-Raising, Hellish, and Humorous Movies", by Mike Mayo, which I bought because it has a picture of Michael Myers on the cover. I don't think "Trainspotting" is a horror movie either (maybe a black comedy), but that's what this guy Mayo says.

[MyersFan75]

Originally posted by NCamp
this isnt Lapracaun in the Hood.

lmao.

Later,
MyersFan75

[ARROW85]

Originally posted by Khorne23
I sem to be fairly cross-pollinated by Friday the 13th lately, so here's another gem from the documentary about part seven I'm in the process of watching. In an effort to pep up the series, the director (he also wrote or co-wrote, apparently) tried to come up with an opponent who was more of a match for jason.

Could such a thing be done with Halloween? Give Michael a worthy opponent? Here are some ideas, off the top of my head, that wouldn't strain credibility:

1) In the vein of Michael being the lesser of two evils, what about the Shape doing the dance with another serial killer? Henry Lee Lucas and the Green River Killer apparently traveled extensively, so Michael's opponent could either be a Haddonfield native (dare I say...a copy cat?) or a drifter with a secret. Imagine the confusion that would come when either this other serial killer is caught, but the murders continue, or everyone thinks its Michael killing, only to discover that someone new has "taken the field".

2) Give Michael a professional fighter to knock heads with, like a martial arts champion or a special forces soldier. This would lead to a very action oriented film.

3) Rusty Shock wrote some very good fan fiction about Halloween back in 1999, and any number of his ideas would make a fine film. In this instance, what if a demon or similar "high wattage supernatural being" paid Haddonfield a visit. I imagine this was the premise behind the idea of a Halloween/ Hellraiser cross-over I heard about, that the puzzle box and Lament Configuration showed up in the midwest.

4) Ploughing the H4 - H6 continuity back into the series, what if the Cult of Thorn decides it's going to preform Michael's mission for him, or that they want to get even with Big Mike for killing so many memebrs at ythe climax to H6?

5) Very mundanely, Michael could knock heads with "gangstas" from Chicago or St. Louis trying to open up new markets in Haddonfield and other mid-western towns. Once more, Michael becomes the lesser of two evils. A motorcycle gang or even the official Mafia could also be drafted.

6) Or how about this one, which would be about as big and grand a film as you could get without larger than life supernatural elements. I'm sure most list members have heard of the early eighties Patrick Swayze movie "Red Dawn", about a Societ invasion of the United States. Okay, what about another go at that premise (or, you could substitute a militia group for the Russians, trying to take over territory, a la John Brown and Harper's Ferry), with the phantom of Haddonfield as the resistance.

7) Finally, as seven seasons of Buffy the Vampire Slayer told us, high schools and colleges can have some nastiness emerge from their hallowed halls. Maybe someone in Haddonfield cooked up a moster (can you say Frankenstein?) for Michael to rock with.

Whaddaya think?

You got some pretty good concepts for a Halloween flick, you should write a script about one...

[Khorne23]

Originally posted by ARROW85
You got some pretty good concepts for a Halloween flick, you should write a script about one...

I have about half a dozen ideas laying around half-written.

[FranchiseHatesMe]

They just need to take the movie back the basics and give us a good flick.