Halloween canon?

[Spongerboy]

The Halloween series didn't just consist of the movies alone. There were novels (two different kinds for the first four movies), two series of comic books, a video game, and three young adult books that look like total shit.
What exists to you in Halloween's universe?
What's your opinion?

[thetodd]

The original books. They expounded on Michael and his situation a bit and were very interesting to read.

[fanatic986]

To me its just the movies, becuase the continuity is unstable enough. The books (like the comics and jr novels) contrdict even more.

[thetodd]

Originally posted by fanatic986
To me its just the movies, becuase the continuity is unstable enough. The books (like the comics and jr novels) contrdict even more.
The original books didn't contradict anything. I haven't read the newer versions.

[MMyers89]

To me its just the movies that are real. The books and other stuff are just for fun.

[Nightmare13]

I agree MMyers89, even if I have not read the comics, novels etc., they are all just for fun.

[MyersFan927]

Good thread!

Originally posted by thetodd
The original books didn't contradict anything. I haven't read the newer versions.

Well, they do only slightly. Minor things.

Let's not forget the TV scenes, guys. Should they count as well? I'm torn on this subject, because I am not sure what should qualify as counting and what should not. Remember that the novels were not written by the makers of the films, so they do not directly reflect upon their views (particularly, JC's). So this is tough for me personally. But, in defense of the books, they give the opportunity to provide much greater detail to the characters and their backgrounds, and this is an important asset. At the end of the day I suppose the books should count in the Halloween universe, but perhaps the comic books shouldn't. But that's just me.

I look forward to what other people have to say on the topic. Again, good thread.

[gerry d]

Originally posted by Spongerboy
The Halloween series didn't just consist of the movies alone. There were novels (two different kinds for the first four movies),

I thought H4 was the only novel to have 2 versions of it?

cheers

[thetodd]

Originally posted by MyersFan927
Good thread!



Well, they do only slightly. Minor things.

Let's not forget the TV scenes, guys. Should they count as well? I'm torn on this subject, because I am not sure what should qualify as counting and what should not. Remember that the novels were not written by the makers of the films, so they do not directly reflect upon their views (particularly, JC's). So this is tough for me personally. But, in defense of the books, they give the opportunity to provide much greater detail to the characters and their backgrounds, and this is an important asset. At the end of the day I suppose the books should count in the Halloween universe, but perhaps the comic books shouldn't. But that's just me.

I look forward to what other people have to say on the topic. Again, good thread.
What did the original books contradict?
As far as the tv scenes, I think the added scenes for Halloween are definitely cannon.

[Spongerboy]

Originally posted by MMyers89
To me its just the movies that are real. The books and other stuff are just for fun.
And the movies aren't for fun....?:D

[Rabbit in Red]

If I had read the novels or the comics I would have a real opinion, but based simply on opinion I would say anything that is made for either Michael Myers (excluding fan films) should count. Can't wait to read One Good Scare.

[FTL]

I only follow the films. The comics and novels aren't cannon. If the young adult novels were, then Michael's kill list would probably be up there with Jason.

[Chaosboy]

The first book puts the supernatural element into the story on the first few pages, so anyone who says that MM was just a normal Nutcase is kidding themselves. Anything that author wrote would have had to get JC's stamp of approval, so which ever story arc you choose....(4,5,6) or( H20) it really just personal opinion.....cause none of the story writers or producers is ever going to say one way or the other for fear of upsetting the fan base....which is what keeps MM alive and killing!...cheers!

[wallygatorca]

Originally posted by Chaosboy
so anyone who says that MM was just a normal Nutcase is kidding themselves.

kno you're right he was quite the stir crazy, but JC left him in ashes after H2 and was onto a completely new idea with III.

Had it been a success, Mr. Akkad would have followed suit.

It is only after much time(the most between the MM films), that eventually turned the series into "greed" and gave birth to 4-8...

[AlbyBat]

Personally I consider anything thats an original story with Michael Myers as the killer, and is licensed (no fan films, fan fiction, etc) is part of the overall Myer's story/mythos. Granted, the young adult novels DO suck, and in a few places there are discrepancies with the films (mostly with dates, etc), but in my opinion (however terriblly written they were), they tell what Myers was doing between H6 and H20. The Chaos! comics, which were fun, but still much better than the YA novels, told the story of what Michael was up to between H20 and H:R, and did something for the series which many people have been asking to see in the films; namely, tying together H4-H6 with H20. It also helps set up Laurie's being institutionalized in H:R. If its licensed by the owners of the rights, and it doesn't blaringly contradict any of the films or other books, I consider it canon.

[AlbyBat]

Halloween Timeline/Chronology of canon:

Halloween 10/1978 DVD
Halloween 2 10/1978 DVD
Halloween 4: The Return of Michael Myers 10/1988 DVD
Halloween 5: The Revenge of Michael Myers 10/1989 DVD
Halloween: The Curse of Michael Myers 10/1995 DVD
Halloween: The Scream Factory 10/1996 Novel
Halloween: The Old Myers' Place 10/1997 Novel
Halloween: The Mad House 8/1998 Novel
Halloween H20: Twenty Years Later 10/1998 DVD
Halloween #1: Untold Secrets 10/1999 Comic
Halloween #2: The Darkest Eyes 10/1999 Comic
Halloween #3: The Devil's Eyes 10/2001 Comic
Halloween: Resurrection 10/2002 DVD
Halloween: Retribution and Descent 10/2003 Comic
Halloween: One Good Scare 10/2003 Comic
Halloween 9 ??/????

[Demonswrath]

Thanks for the info. I haven't heard of the Retribution and Descent comic. Would you have any idea on how I could find it? My local comic shops don't have any Halloween comics and I haven't seen it online. I still need to find the first three comics as well. From what I've been told and seen, they are very good. People that don't care for the thorn idea would hate them though. Thanks again.

[AlbyBat]

Retribution and Descent was in the 25th anniversary souvenir magazine or whatever, you should probably be able to find it in the store. Also, One Good Scare, another comic, should be available there. The other three, by Chaos! comics, are pretty good, i recommend checking them out as they help tie together the two main storylines (Laurie Strode/Thorn) and ties up hanging plot lines from some of the earlier films.

[Demonswrath]

Much appreciated AlbyBat.

[Khorne23]

Originally posted by FTL
I only follow the films. The comics and novels aren't cannon. If the young adult novels were, then Michael's kill list would probably be up there with Jason.

According to a tally which appears on FlixMix's DVD "Bogeymen: The Killer Compilation", Jason is in first place, with a body count of 191 persons. Michael Myers is in third place (behind Jason and "Phantasm"'s Tall Man) with 75 human victims and 4 dogs.

The "Bogeymen" DVD was released before "Halloween: Resurrection" and "Freddy vs. Jason" were, but after all of the "Phantasm" movies had been, so, presumably, Michael has moved solidly into second place, behind Hockey Mask.

FlixMix gets these figures from something called "The Horror Movie Survival Guide", which I think is a book I saw once.

FYI, the top three on the list (Jason Voorhees, the Tall Man, and Michael Myers) are waaaaaay out ahead of everyone. According to the FlixMix tally, the fourth place maniac, Freddy Kruger, is only credited with 31 fatalities, 44 fewer human fatalities than Michael. The Tall Man, meanwhile, in second place, is credited with 79 human and 1 canine fatality, which means he's only a hairsbreadth ahead of Michael.

[Khorne23]

As far as literal canon goes, I'd have to say that I only consider the only official Halloween stuff to be something Halloween related that has John Carpenter involved. As far as I'm concerned, only Carpenter's output can be considered cannon, and that means only the first three films (yes, three).

I've come across enough ancedotal and circumstantial evidence to suggest that Carpenter did have some sort of a back story or a saga worked out for the characters...an explanation, if you will. This explanation did not exist, at least, not fully blown, when the original Halloween was made, but it did exist before Halloween 2 was finished, and probably emerged as the TV scenes for "Halloween" were being filmed.

By the way, in my mind, this technically makes the TV cut of the original Halloween sort of a "Halloween 1.5", since the TV version of the first film contains story elements from Halloween 2 not in the theatrical version. Its not an edited version of the original, but a prequel to Halloween 2.

Now, some people learned of what Carpenter's explanation was, somehow. Maybe he actually wrote down notes, which were later read, maybe he told somebody, but however it happened, someone found out what John Carpenter had in mind for the characters. Probably, it was a rough draft of the script for H2 that did it.

Anyway, materials like the novelizations, which use Carpenter's ideas, have a strong case for being cannon. They aren't cannon, or don't have as strong a case as Carpenter's actual output, but they are able to make a claim.

Now, Jamie Lee Curtis bridges back to Carpenter's personal output, which makes Halloween H20 and Halloween: Resurrection kinda more cannon than any of the other films. She was in things which John Carpenter wrote. The way I see it, you have shells of "officialness", that go something like this:

Layer one (most cannon): John Carpenter's actual output (first three films)

Layer two (not as cannon): stuff based on Carpenter's ideas and concepts (novelizations dating from late 1970s/ early 1980s)

Layer three (less cannon again): Halloween materials that Jamie Lee Curtis is involved in (first two and last two films)

So, the most official Halloween stuff, to me, is something that John Carpenter was involved in, because he created the characters and concepts and because he seems to have had something in mind for them. Anything which emerges from the first two films, which Carpenter wrote, carries more weight than things which appear in other films, like where exactly Haddonfield is found in the state of Illinois, and why I think its OK to ignore the bus route map we see fleetingly in Halloween 6.

Long story short: cannon = Carpenter

[FTL]

Originally posted by Khorne23
According to a tally which appears on FlixMix's DVD "Bogeymen: The Killer Compilation", Jason is in first place, with a body count of 191 persons. Michael Myers is in third place (behind Jason and "Phantasm"'s Tall Man) with 75 human victims and 4 dogs.

I just mentioned it as an example of sorts...it may have been exaggerated, though. But if comics and novels (Kelly O'Rourke's contain maybe around 7 a book) were included with the film series canon, then not only would Michael's body count be fairly plumped, his story would make no fucking sense. So, that's why I consider the film series the official story.