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Erin Brixon
12-20-2008, 06:14 PM
I Think He Found Her When He Smelled The Mail He Recongnized Her Scent I Dont Know Just A Theory Because If He Just Smailed The Mail For New Reason That Would Make Michael More Of A Freak Then Scary

Danny Strode
12-20-2008, 06:30 PM
It's for the same reason he found Laurie in the original: we just don't know. ;)

ALDO
12-20-2008, 07:36 PM
It's for the same reason he found Laurie in the original: we just don't know. ;)

To be fair though, he didn't actually find Laurie in the original. She was just some random girl who was at the wrong place at the wrong time.:)

DoomsdayFAN
12-20-2008, 07:42 PM
Smelling the mail was one of those "WTF" moments for me. It shouldnt have been in. But anyway, I dont think he was sure it was her. A baby is not going to have the same scent as when its grown up. But I dont really know.

Danny Strode
12-20-2008, 07:54 PM
Smelling the mail was one of those "WTF" moments for me.

And like he could smell it through the mask. :rolleyes:

MischievousSpirit
12-20-2008, 08:25 PM
Smelling the mail was one of those "WTF" moments for me. It shouldnt have been in. But anyway, I dont think he was sure it was her. A baby is not going to have the same scent as when its grown up. But I dont really know.

Whether you agree with it or not, obviously that's what Rob intended for the audience to believe!

DoomsdayFAN
12-20-2008, 08:51 PM
But I dont think the smelling thing was in the T-Cut. (Was it?)

MischievousSpirit
12-20-2008, 08:53 PM
Yes, it was.

The Dark Knight
12-20-2008, 09:04 PM
I never noticed the smelling until it was pointed out a few months ago on here.

Torgo
12-20-2008, 09:53 PM
I never noticed the smelling until it was pointed out a few months ago on here.

Same here. I couldn't care less, to be honest.

I mean seriously, who really gives a shit?

haddonfieldfan
12-21-2008, 06:37 AM
Weird I just rewatched the movie yesterday and it was the 1st time I noticed that Michael sniffs the envelope when Laurie posts it into the myers house. I personally dont mind this, adds a primitive edge to myers:D Better than having no reason at all for him working out who Baby boo was, mind the chances of them meeting like that, one in a million...:spooky:

Danny Strode
12-21-2008, 07:08 AM
I'm surprised that a lot of people didn't notice him sniffing the envelope? I'm also surprised that I thought it wasn't in the Theatrical cut.

I really don't care, but obviously enough to say that. ;)

The Dark Knight
12-21-2008, 11:04 AM
I'm surprised that a lot of people didn't notice him sniffing the envelope?


I thought he was just holding it up to his face.

Danny Strode
12-21-2008, 12:22 PM
But I thought that he made a sniffing noise.

Khan
12-21-2008, 12:30 PM
"I can smell your scent..."

I had to use the network edit in this case.

Zombie_Myers
01-03-2009, 04:31 PM
It didn't sound like he was sniffing the envelope it sounded like his regular breathing.

SystemOfaDown
01-03-2009, 07:36 PM
He is smarter then the actual human.

Just kidding there but I really dont know how he would know where Laurie is.

Evil-Never-Dies
01-10-2009, 01:13 AM
doesn't the whole smelling the mail and finding laurie getting a scent have to do with what michael has been identified with by having a animal instinct??

DoomsdayFAN
01-10-2009, 01:47 AM
Shes not going to smell the same after 17 years. The smelling thing is not even in the Theatrical Cut.


Super lame!

Danny Strode
01-10-2009, 08:26 AM
doesn't the whole smelling the mail and finding laurie getting a scent have to do with what michael has been identified with by having a animal instinct??

That's what it's been quoted as.

The Devil's Reject
01-10-2009, 08:39 AM
Damn that scene had a real creapy feel to it there's something about someone smelling someone that just doesn't sit right with me.

Danny Strode
01-10-2009, 08:40 AM
If he took off her shoe and sniffed it, then I'd have a problem. The whole sniffing of the envelope thing was a :wtf: moment for me.

The Devil's Reject
01-10-2009, 08:42 AM
How about if in the next film he takes her panties of and sniffs them :bastard:

Khan
01-10-2009, 08:49 AM
Do you think of anything else but sex?

The Devil's Reject
01-10-2009, 08:51 AM
Let me think.............

I'll get back to you. :D

The Devil's Reject
01-10-2009, 09:03 AM
One possible explanation in the original is that someone gave Michael directions (most likely Wynn.) But in this one we don't see that but that doesn't mean it didn't happen earlier.

Danny Strode
01-10-2009, 09:21 AM
No, no, no.

The Devil's Reject
01-10-2009, 09:24 AM
What?

Danny Strode
01-10-2009, 09:27 AM
I really don't think Wynn has anything to do with this series.

The Devil's Reject
01-10-2009, 09:28 AM
Yeah I don't either but that's one way it could've went down.

SasorRegateme
01-10-2009, 12:56 PM
I didn't mind the smelling of the envelope.

As for Michael knowing where to locate Laurie, he just knew is all I can say.

Zombie_Myers
01-10-2009, 01:04 PM
We didn't find out how he knew in the original either before anyone points it out I know originally Laurie wasn't meant to be Michael's sister.

FlowerPot
03-11-2009, 09:08 PM
He used map quest, DUH!

Nah, as everyone else said.. Michael just KNOWS!

Walton
03-12-2009, 01:14 AM
He found her because a couple of writers wanted to scare babysitters and teenagers around the world and they succeeded. LOL.......But in all seriousness, he smelled her.

TheThirdHalf
03-12-2009, 02:09 AM
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Black Sunshine
03-12-2009, 04:25 AM
He def smelled her scent and recognized her, which is not creepy. but if he would have sniffed Bob's finger after he Impaled him.... then that would have been a little too creepy...

Danny Strode
03-12-2009, 08:07 AM
He used map quest, DUH!

Ha, ha. I wonder if he asked for help.


but if he would have sniffed Bob's finger after he Impaled him.... then that would have been a little too creepy...

:bigeyes:

That's wrong on so many levels.

MischievousSpirit
03-12-2009, 08:13 AM
And for the record, the envelope sniffing scene is in all cuts of the film. And some of you need to seriously check for yourselves before saying that it is not!

FlowerPot
03-12-2009, 12:33 PM
Ha, ha. I wonder if he asked for help.

Nah, I mean you would think after those 15 years, he would've been able to figure out how to steal the Sanitarium's crappy wi-fi and use map quest.


He def smelled her scent and recognized her, which is not creepy. but if he would have sniffed Bob's finger after he Impaled him.... then that would have been a little too creepy...

..... O_O, if he did....

Inhumane
04-13-2009, 11:54 AM
Myers discovering it was Laurie by simply sniffing the envelope is one of the many embarrassingly bad elements in the movie.

Nemesis1835
04-13-2009, 06:45 PM
I Think He Found Her When He Smelled The Mail He Recongnized Her Scent I Dont Know Just A Theory Because If He Just Smailed The Mail For New Reason That Would Make Michael More Of A Freak Then Scary

Ya Michael Found Laurie By Sniffing the mail cause if u recall later loomis is talking to brakett and says that he has pure animal instinks or somthing like that......
Forgive me for my spelling mistakes..........

Five by Five
04-16-2009, 07:23 PM
I thought he smelled it? It would be more like the character is now, being a hobo and living in the woods.

Or maybe he just recognised her from the picture. Some people DO look like themselves when babies.

TheThirdHalf
04-16-2009, 07:24 PM
Laurie didn't look like baby Laurie though :p

Michael Voorhees
07-28-2009, 06:03 PM
I'm still not exactly sure how he was able to pinpoint who she is as a scent is always changing, and considering Laurie was adopted, it's a definite thing that her scent would change overtime. I don't really care that he sniffed mail, I actually like that it was added into that scene.

Five by Five
07-28-2009, 06:10 PM
I personally felt it was more in tune with the character, the way it was set up. He is often referred to as an animal so it made sense.

Black Sunshine
07-28-2009, 06:18 PM
its kinda like how u know your dad was in the bathroom before u.....

MischievousSpirit
07-28-2009, 06:19 PM
Or maybe Michael read the return address on the envelope she shoved through the door! Anybody think of that yet? :D

Five by Five
07-28-2009, 06:20 PM
Thats an interesting point, but how would he have known she was adopted by the Strodes?

Michael Voorhees
07-28-2009, 08:24 PM
He wouldn't, and I think the only logical thing would be that she looked like the baby picture.....only she didn't, so even that can be tossed out the window.

Danny Strode
07-28-2009, 08:40 PM
Or maybe Michael read the return address on the envelope she shoved through the door! Anybody think of that yet? :D

I did, but why spoil it for everyone else? ;)

EvilOnTwoLegs
07-28-2009, 09:38 PM
How about, it's a massive coincidence? Just like in the original, once H2 came along and fucked it to smithereens with the stupid "sister" retcon.

See, in H1, Laurie was just a girl who dropped off a key at the Myers house. From that moment, Myers became fixated on her, and began to stalk her. There was a beautiful, frightening simplicity about it.

Then in H2, John Carpenter decided that Laurie was "the other sister." At which point, it became a massive coincidence that she was the one to catch Michael's eye while dropping off the key. RZH simply carries on that same massive coincidence. So no one who likes H2 is allowed to complain about it. :p

Michael Voorhees
07-28-2009, 09:49 PM
Hehe, I guess you're right about that, but I like that it's his sister he's so fixated on killing, it makes him that much more fucked up.

EvilOnTwoLegs
07-28-2009, 09:54 PM
I think it's more fucked up in H1, where he just sees her and becomes instantly fixated on her for no real reason. It's creepier because it's the kind of thing that can happen to anyone...not just to unsuspecting siblings of serial killers. And because it's the kind of thing that rings of true psychopathy. The more elaborate and convoluted motivations become, the more unnecessary and phony it all seems.

Honestly, I wish Zombie would've checked the sister bullshit at the door in his remake. There was a chance to start fresh and make Laurie Strode just a random babysitter again, but he didn't seize it. But then, if he did, I'm sure that fans would've screamed bloody murder (even more than they already do over the remake) that he snuffed the sibling connection out of existence.

Hopefully, he makes good use of the sibling connection in H2, because I don't think that it was really justified in RZH. It seemed pointless. Just as it did in the original H2.

The Source
07-28-2009, 09:59 PM
I think it's more fucked up in H1, where he just sees her and becomes instantly fixated on her for no real reason. It's creepier because it's the kind of thing that can happen to anyone...not just to unsuspecting siblings of serial killers. And because it's the kind of thing that rings of true psychopathy. The more elaborate and convoluted motivations become, the more unnecessary and phony it all seems.

Honestly, I wish Zombie would've checked the sister bullshit at the door in his remake. There was a chance to start fresh and make Laurie Strode just a random babysitter again, but he didn't seize it. But then, if he did, I'm sure that fans would've screamed bloody murder (even more than they already do over the remake) that he snuffed the sibling connection out of existence.

Hopefully, he makes good use of the sibling connection in H2, because I don't think that it was really justified in RZH. It seemed pointless. Just as it did in the original H2.

I would've been one of them. The revelation that Laurie is his sister right from the start is one of the few things I actually like about the reboot.

EvilOnTwoLegs
07-28-2009, 10:03 PM
There are those who prefer simplicity, and then I guess there are those who prefer all cinematic events to hinge upon major coincidences and overwrought, overemphasized, highly improbable situations. :p

The Source
07-28-2009, 10:10 PM
There are those who prefer simplicity, and then I guess there are those who prefer all cinematic events to hinge upon major coincidences and overwrought, overemphasized, highly improbable situations. :p

Sure, if that's how you see it. :p

I just think it adds to the story. He killed his seventeen year old sister, waits fifteen years, escapes, and now wants to kill his other sister. Who is now seventeen. To me, that is just evil. You can just not give to shits about killing random fuckers, but to kill your own family, that is fucking evil.

MM2DYLAN
07-28-2009, 10:12 PM
Judy was fifteen. :p

The Source
07-28-2009, 10:12 PM
Judy was fifteen. :p

fifteen, seventeen, who gives a shit.

Wait, when was that established.

MM2DYLAN
07-28-2009, 10:14 PM
The gravestone says born November 10, 1947, Died October 31, 1963.

The Source
07-28-2009, 10:16 PM
The gravestone says born November 10, 1947, Died October 31, 1963.

Oh, whatever. It doesn't change anything.

MM2DYLAN
07-28-2009, 10:17 PM
Well, of course it doesn't. Because it was the first to state her birth date. H20 changed it.

The Source
07-28-2009, 10:22 PM
Well, of course it doesn't. Because it was the first to state her birth date. H20 changed it.

I'm not a huge fan of H20 anyway.

I just believe the shape killing his family is far more interessting than killing random bystanders. Jason, Freddie, and Leatherface already do that. Michael's M.O. is what sets him apart. What truly makes him evil. There is nothing more evil than patricide/matricide/sister-cide? Killing one's one family is just EVIL!

Family is supposed to be forever!

EvilOnTwoLegs
07-28-2009, 10:26 PM
Sure, if that's how you see it. :p

I just think it adds to the story. He killed his seventeen year old sister, waits fifteen years, escapes, and now wants to kill his other sister. Who is now seventeen. To me, that is just evil. You can just not give to shits about killing random fuckers, but to kill your own family, that is fucking evil.

I still think that the idea of someone stalking and killing you for no apparent reason is far more disturbing than them having a concrete reason for doing so. People kill their own family members for various reasons all the time. In virtually any murder investigation, family members and spouses are the first suspects. Only true sociopaths are driven to murder strangers. And sociopathy is the closest thing to true evil that exists in this world.

And yes, Judith was 15 in H1. H20 failed to take into account the headstone, and retconned Judith's age when it was decided to bring the number "17" into the equation and even further complicate Michael's once simple motivation.



I'm not a huge fan of H20 anyway.

I just believe the shape killing his family is far more interessting than killing random bystanders. Jason, Freddie, and Leatherface already do that. Michael's M.O. is what sets him apart. What truly makes him evil. There is nothing more evil than patricide/matricide/sister-cide? Killing one's one family is just EVIL!

Family is supposed to be forever!

Freddy kills the children of the people who burned him alive. Jason kills camp counselors to avenge the death of his mother. Leatherface kills people who he feels are invading his territory and threatening the security of his family.

None of these motives are as simple as stalking and killing strangers for no apparent reason...which was the defining characteristic of the original Shape.

The Source
07-28-2009, 10:30 PM
I still think that the idea of someone stalking and killing you for no apparent reason is far more disturbing than them having a concrete reason for doing so. People kill their own family members for various reasons all the time. In virtually any murder investigation, family members and spouses are the first suspects. Only true sociopaths are driven to murder strangers. And sociopathy is the closest thing to true evil that exists in this world.

And yes, Judith was 15 in H1. H20 failed to take into account the headstone, and retconned Judith's age when it was decided to bring the number "17" into the equation and even further complicate Michael's once simple motivation.

What was disturbing about the original, was that Michael had no reason for killing Judith or wanting to kill Laurie in II. It wasn't like RZ'sH.
You don't think, even a little, that it sets him apart from the other slashers? Jason, Freddie, Leatherface, and ETC...

EvilOnTwoLegs
07-28-2009, 10:35 PM
No. They all had clear motives, whereas the original Shape had none. If anything, giving him a clear motive (killing his family) makes him MORE like the other slashers. What made the character different and special in the first place was that he had no earthly reason for stalking Laurie and trying to kill her. He just saw her, and that was it. From the moment he set eyes on her, she was as good as dead, as far as he was concerned. Not because she was his sister, not because of some grudge against a certain group of people, not because he felt threatened...just because she was there.

As far as I can see, that's just about the scariest thing in the world. The idea that someone can just see you and, for absolutely NO logical reason, decide that you need to die.

MM2DYLAN
07-28-2009, 10:36 PM
And all the slasher's eventually played a relative card after that, too.

The Source
07-28-2009, 10:40 PM
No. They all had clear motives, whereas the original Shape had none. If anything, giving him a clear motive (killing his family) makes him MORE like the other slashers. What made the character different and special in the first place was that he had no earthly reason for stalking Laurie and trying to kill her. He just saw her, and that was it. From the moment he set his eyes on her, she was as good as dead, as far as he was concerned. Not because she was his sister, not because of some grudge against a certain group of people, not because he felt threatened...just because she was there.

As far as I can see, that's just about the scariest thing in the world. The idea that someone can just see you and, for absolutely NO logical reason, decide that you need to die.

Call me confused, but the others slashers do just that. Kill random teens. Freddy for the first few movies killed the elm street children, but that eventually changed. Jason had no motives. Killed anyone who just happened to be there.

And all the slasher's eventually played a relative card after that, too.

Trying to imitate Halloween's success, but it didn't work.

EvilOnTwoLegs
07-28-2009, 10:43 PM
Yes, you are confused.


Freddy kills the children of the people who burned him alive. Jason kills camp counselors to avenge the death of his mother. Leatherface kills people who he feels are invading his territory and threatening the security of his family.

None of these motives are as simple as stalking and killing strangers for no apparent reason...which was the defining characteristic of the original Shape.

The Source
07-28-2009, 10:49 PM
Jason would kill any teen that came into his woods, not just camp counselors. Sometimes he would venture into the city and kill store owners, honeymooners, cops, and other random victims.

After part 4's first half, none of Freddy's victims were responsible for Freddy being burned alive. He just wanted to kill children. In Freddy's Dead, he even tried to set up shop in a new town after slaughtering all of Springwood's children.

EvilOnTwoLegs
07-28-2009, 10:57 PM
Jason would kill any teen that came into his woods, not just camp counselors. Sometimes he would venture into the city and kill store owners, honeymooners, cops, and other random victims.

After part 3, none of Freddy's victims were responsible for Freddy being burned alive. He just wanted to kill children. In Freddy's Dead, he even tried to set up shop in a new town after slaughtering all of Springwood's children.

But we're talking about motivations here. All of those characters HAD basic motivations. Sure, Jason would kill someone who wasn't a counselor. But then, even after it was decided that Myers targeted his family, most of the people he killed weren't members of his family. In fact, over the course of seven films, Myers succeeded in killing only THREE people who were related to him. So what difference does it make if Jason didn't kill camp counselors exclusively? That was his basic motivation when the character started out, and it was essentially just a role reversal of what his mother had done in the original F13.

You're the one who insists that giving Myers a clear motive made him somehow "different" from the other slashers. I'm just pointing out - and it's absolutely, concretely true - that Myers was the only one of those slashers who didn't have a clear motive to begin with. Giving him a concrete motive didn't separate him from the pack, because the pack already HAD concrete motives.

Now you can argue in circles around that, but it doesn't change the fact that it's true. Giving Myers a concrete motive is what made him just another slasher, as opposed to being The Shape, which killed for no discernible reason.

Peaker1990
07-28-2009, 11:02 PM
Jason would kill any teen that came into his woods, not just camp counselors. Sometimes he would venture into the city and kill store owners, honeymooners, cops, and other random victims.

After part 4's first half, none of Freddy's victims were responsible for Freddy being burned alive. He just wanted to kill children. In Freddy's Dead, he even tried to set up shop in a new town after slaughtering all of Springwood's children.


I can answer this question in one word: Money.

There's only so many ways you can rework the same plot without it being a pure remake, and not a worthwhile sequel, so they couldn't keep the "camp counselor" thing, because they're only going to open a camp in that area so many times before realizing, "Wait... this isn't a good idea."

And the Freddy thing: Only so many kids can live on Elm Street. What brought these "random victims" in was pure MONEY.

The Source
07-28-2009, 11:05 PM
But we're talking about motivations here. All of those characters HAD basic motivations. Sure, Jason would kill someone who wasn't a counselor. But then, even after it was decided that Myers targeted his family, most of the people he killed weren't members of his family. In fact, over the course of seven films, Myers succeeded in killing only THREE people who were related to him. So what difference does it make if Jason didn't kill camp counselors exclusively? That was his basic motivation when the character started out, and it was essentially just a role reversal of what his mother had done in the original F13.

You're the one who insists that giving Myers a clear motive made him somehow "different" from the other slashers. I'm just pointing out - and it's absolutely, concretely true - that Myers was the only one of those slashers who didn't have a clear motive to begin with. Giving him a concrete motive didn't separate him from the pack, because the pack already HAD concrete motives.

Now you can argue in circles around that, but it doesn't change the fact that it's true. Giving Myers a concrete motive is what made him just another slasher, as opposed to being The Shape, which killed for no discernible reason.

Alright, this will be my last post. Any random person could be a camp counselor or enter his woods. If they were smart they wouldn't. Those random characters can avoid being in Jason's woods, but Michael's relatives can never escape Michael and that is a scary thought.
There is no real significance to any Friday character unlike the correlation between Michael and Laurie.
I just prefer it, that is all. :D

heavymetal
07-28-2009, 11:10 PM
Why must people try to argue with EOTL?

It's like one person fighting against an entire army. In other words...You're going to lose.

EvilOnTwoLegs
07-28-2009, 11:10 PM
Alright, this will be my last post. Any random person could be a camp counselor or enter his woods. If they were smart they wouldn't. Those random characters can avoid being in Jason's woods, but Michael's relatives can never escape Michael and that is a scary thought.
There is no real significance to any Friday character unlike the correlation between Michael and Laurie.
I just prefer it, that is all. :D

Fair enough. And I prefer the idea that the killer just sets his sights on someone based on a chance encounter, and from that moment on, there is no escape. Or at least I find that idea far more unsettling.

As I said, sociopathic killers...the only real life monsters...kill strangers because they see them and, for no reason other than their own twisted need to control and possess and destroy, are driven to kill them. Conversely, lots of people kill members of their own family. Happens every single day. So I fail to see what's so jarringly "evil" about it.

MM2DYLAN
07-28-2009, 11:11 PM
Why must people try to argue with EOTL?

It's like one person fighting against an entire army. In other words...You're going to lose.

Ain't it the truth?

Peaker1990
07-28-2009, 11:11 PM
Why must people try to argue with EOTL?

It's like one person fighting against an entire army. In other words...You're going to lose.

Yep... that's why I try to agree with him as often as possible (which, we usually have similar opinions regarding Halloween, so its not that hard lol)

heavymetal
07-28-2009, 11:13 PM
I haven't seen one person out argue him. Why? It's impossible.

The Source
07-28-2009, 11:18 PM
Fair enough. And I prefer the idea that the killer just sets his sights on someone based on a chance encounter, and from that moment on, there is no escape. Or at least I find that idea far more unsettling.

As I said, sociopathic killers...the only real life monsters...kill strangers because they see them and, for no reason other than their own twisted need to control and possess and destroy, are driven to kill them. Conversely, lots of people kill members of their own family. Happens every single day. So I fail to see what's so jarringly "evil" about it.
Only thing I can say is, I can't see why you don't.
You're supposed to love your family. Random people, who cares about them.

EvilOnTwoLegs
07-28-2009, 11:25 PM
Because normal murder is a crime of passion, and it always has a reason behind it. It's commonplace. Sociopathic killing of strangers is not. It is absolutely detached. There is no motive, beyond the deep-seated desire to control, possess, and destroy. The act itself is essentially its own motive. The sociopath's victims are nothing more than objects to be used, broken, and thrown away. There's a complete lack of human empathy that is required to do something like that. And if anything is "evil," that kind of behavior is.

Peaker1990
07-28-2009, 11:30 PM
Because normal murder is a crime of passion, and it always has a reason behind it. It's commonplace. Sociopathic killing of strangers is not. It is absolutely detached. The sociopath's victims are nothing more than objects to be used, broken, and thrown away. There's a complete lack of human empathy that is required to do something like that. And if anything is "evil," that kind of behavior is.

Hate to be off topic, but you totally just reminded me of Jodie Foster's line in Silence of the Lambs, about Ruth using Catherine Martin's name over and over again in the taped plea. "If he sees Catherine as a person and not just an object, its harder to tear her up."

But yeah, that is absolutely true. Its a lot creepier to think that the fact that you are living, breathing human being, who feels pain and torture, has absolutely no meaning to these kind of people. That's where the Family plotline kills the series, don't get me wrong, it works FANTASTICALLY in Rob Zombie's Halloween movies, but it brought in all kinds of mess, Thorn for example.

The Source
07-28-2009, 11:33 PM
Because normal murder is a crime of passion, and it always has a reason behind it. It's commonplace. Sociopathic killing of strangers is not. It is absolutely detached. The sociopath's victims are nothing more than objects to be used, broken, and thrown away. There's a complete lack of human empathy that is required to do something like that. And if anything is "evil," that kind of behavior is.

I completly understand where you are coming from and I know I'm getting stupid at this point, but if I killed my seven year old brother for no reason, you wouldn't concider that evil?
I swear I'm done now. Thanks EOTL for the great debate as always and to think we didn't even get into Thorn this time. :D

EvilOnTwoLegs
07-28-2009, 11:56 PM
Hate to be off topic, but you totally just reminded me of Jodie Foster's line in Silence of the Lambs, about Ruth using Catherine Martin's name over and over again in the taped plea. "If he sees Catherine as a person and not just an object, its harder to tear her up."

But yeah, that is absolutely true. Its a lot creepier to think that the fact that you are living, breathing human being, who feels pain and torture, has absolutely no meaning to these kind of people. That's where the Family plotline kills the series, don't get me wrong, it works FANTASTICALLY in Rob Zombie's Halloween movies, but it brought in all kinds of mess, Thorn for example.

Ted Bundy refused to talk to investigators about putting "people" into his car. He didn't like the term, so they had to come up with another one. He finally agreed to talk about transporting "cargo." They also had to describe the cargo as "damaged" or "undamaged," because he objected to the terms "alive" and "dead."



I completly understand where you are coming from and I know I'm getting stupid at this point, but if I killed my seven year old brother for no reason, you wouldn't concider that evil?
I swear I'm done now. Thanks EOTL for the great debate as always and to think we didn't even get into Thorn this time. :D

Well, to be clear, I don't technically believe in "evil." I believe in science, and science does not account for "evil." I believe in personality disorders. Doesn't quite have the ring of "evil," I'll admit...but personality disorders are quantifiable and not rooted in mythical notions of devils and damnation. And they explain human behavior...whereas "evil" is, in my opinion, just a cop-out.

So really, I don't think that anything is "evil," because that term means nothing to me. I would consider it disturbing...but still not quite as disturbing as if you killed a seven-year-old that you didn't even know.

Myers did both in H1. He started out by killing his sister, but it's made pretty clear that killing family isn't his primary motivation. He goes after Laurie because she's there and she catches his eye. Which I think is just scarier. It feels more real, more believable...and it doesn't rely on any huge coincidences.

MichaelJrdnMyrs
07-29-2009, 10:58 AM
Myers did both in H1. He started out by killing his sister, but it's made pretty clear that killing family isn't his primary motivation. He goes after Laurie because she's there and she catches his eye. Which I think is just scarier. It feels more real, more believable...and it doesn't rely on any huge coincidences.

I love that scene, the way it was intended. I love Shape as indescriminate killer.

I still liked Zombie's use of the sister angle in his version. Despite my wanting MM to return to his original M.O. for so long. The sister aspect was more integral to the story Zombie was telling, not just some twist for twist's sake.

Don't get me wrong, I was horrified at how he tried to graft H2's retroactive sister logic into this scene. It's where I pretty much gave up on the movie. In my mind there's no doubt it's something that HAD to be written differently, yet not many fans (or even Zombie's severe critics) point this absolute lack of logic out.

And I'd say the sister twist worked ok for the original H2 because while in the moment watching that movie, it works for most people. It's only afterwards if you recall how Laurie and MM met in H1 that you realize how farfetched that meeting is on those new terms.

And as far as indescriminate vs. sister being scarier, I'd lean towards indiscriminate, but all in all I'd say it's more about how involving a movie is and makes you feel you're inside whichever experience the best.

theshape09
07-29-2009, 12:06 PM
i say he read his file in the sanitarium before escaping and he knew that her name was laurie and when he smells the mail i think he heared tommy yelling at laurie to get away from the house

EvilOnTwoLegs
07-29-2009, 12:24 PM
I also forgot to point out how absolutely ridiculous the flashback scene in the original H2 is. Laurie's adoptive parents actually take her to the sanitarium to see her nutbag brother, who already killed his other sister? Jesus, what the hell kind of parenting is THAT?!?!

What, is this what they do when Laurie misbehaves? "You stop that RIGHT NOW, young lady, or we're gonna drive you out to Smith's Grove and let your crazy brother kill you!"

Makes NO sense. At all.

Peaker1990
07-29-2009, 12:31 PM
I also forgot to point out how absolutely ridiculous the flashback scene in the original H2 is. Laurie's adoptive parents actually take her to the sanitarium to see her nutbag brother, who already killed his other sister? Jesus, what the hell kind of parenting is THAT?!?!

Makes NO sense. At all.


WOW... I never looked at it that way. That's true, bad parenting. They could've just left that plot twist to be revealed by Loomis, and left that scene out, or... better yet... just left the damn subplot out to begin with.

Danny Strode
07-29-2009, 12:45 PM
I also forgot to point out how absolutely ridiculous the flashback scene in the original H2 is. Laurie's adoptive parents actually take her to the sanitarium to see her nutbag brother, who already killed his other sister? Jesus, what the hell kind of parenting is THAT?!?!

What, is this what they do when Laurie misbehaves? "You stop that RIGHT NOW, young lady, or we're gonna drive you out to Smith's Grove and let your crazy brother kill you!"

Makes NO sense. At all.

And not only that, but she seems to have no recollection of anything at all until that point. Ever. And judging by the surprise that followed and everything, she did have no clue.

MichaelJrdnMyrs
07-29-2009, 03:32 PM
I also forgot to point out how absolutely ridiculous the flashback scene in the original H2 is. Laurie's adoptive parents actually take her to the sanitarium to see her nutbag brother, who already killed his other sister? Jesus, what the hell kind of parenting is THAT?!?!

What, is this what they do when Laurie misbehaves? "You stop that RIGHT NOW, young lady, or we're gonna drive you out to Smith's Grove and let your crazy brother kill you!"

Makes NO sense. At all.

Now that's layin down the law.

Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this flashback take place BEFORE the sister revelation? I'm pretty sure, but it's been ages since I've seen the movie.

If so, the scene works decent in a way (at least the first time through) since the sister link isn't recognized by the audience during said flashback. They just sit there and think, "What the hell is this all about?" And once it IS revealed, only if you once again do more thinkin and 'memberin about what happened before does it not to play as well.

Or, you watch it again with a more critical eye instead of simply enjoying the needles in the eyeballs.

H2 is a pretty damn good mirage of a good movie.

theshape09
07-29-2009, 08:23 PM
I also forgot to point out how absolutely ridiculous the flashback scene in the original H2 is. Laurie's adoptive parents actually take her to the sanitarium to see her nutbag brother, who already killed his other sister? Jesus, what the hell kind of parenting is THAT?!?!

What, is this what they do when Laurie misbehaves? "You stop that RIGHT NOW, young lady, or we're gonna drive you out to Smith's Grove and let your crazy brother kill you!"

Makes NO sense. At all.

i never thought of it as a flashback but as a dream cz laurie didn't know she had a brother

EvilOnTwoLegs
07-29-2009, 08:27 PM
It obviously represents a suppressed memory.

heavymetal
07-29-2009, 08:32 PM
I never cared for that scene. Didn't even look like Laurie :bastard:

EvilOnTwoLegs
07-29-2009, 08:33 PM
Which is why there's no way Myers could've recognized her years later.

Also, kid Myers didn't look anything like the kid Myers from H1. Shitty recast.

heavymetal
07-29-2009, 08:35 PM
Then again, neither did the relection in H4. The mask wasn't even the same. Damn it.

The Source
07-29-2009, 08:35 PM
Which is why there's no way Myers could've recognized her years later.

Also, kid Myers didn't look anything like the kid Myers from H1. Shitty recast.

That kid was fucking ugly, hardly the angelic face Loomis was describing, like the actor had in H1. :bastard:

EvilOnTwoLegs
07-29-2009, 08:37 PM
Then again, neither did the relection in H4. The mask wasn't even the same. Damn it.

Forgivable, since Jamie had never actually SEEN kid Myers.

And at least he was blonde. haha

heavymetal
07-29-2009, 08:48 PM
Ha, I know it is. It is Halloween 4, after all.

The Source
07-29-2009, 08:51 PM
Ha, I know it is. It is Halloween 4, after all.

....and that's supposed to mean what?

heavymetal
07-29-2009, 08:54 PM
That it's great and most mistakes are forgiveable.

And then there's that "leave us alone" line................

The Source
07-29-2009, 08:56 PM
That it's great and most mistakes are forgiveable.

And then there's that "leave us alone" line................

Yes, that line is brilliant! ;)

Danny Strode
07-29-2009, 09:03 PM
Forgivable, since Jamie had never actually SEEN kid Myers.

Oh, nice cop out.

So can the same be said for Tommy in H6 since, you know, Loomis briefly saw him in the original? ;)

heavymetal
07-29-2009, 09:04 PM
Well Loomis was getting old. Haha. He probably didn't remember breakfast. The only thing he remembered was anything related to Michael.

EvilOnTwoLegs
07-29-2009, 09:33 PM
Oh, nice cop out.

So can the same be said for Tommy in H6 since, you know, Loomis briefly saw him in the original? ;)

Huh? How the FUCK is that even a valid comparison? haha As far as I can recall, Tommy wasn't just a hallucination in H6...unless it's even weirder than I thought. :p

The Kid Myers in H4 isn't REAL. He's a hallucination by a scared little girl who's never SEEN the real Kid Myers. Would you really expect her imagination to conjure up the spitting image? Or just a reasonable facsimile?

How is that a cop-out?

The Source
07-29-2009, 09:36 PM
Huh? How the FUCK is that even a valid comparison? haha As far as I can recall, Tommy wasn't just a hallucination in H6...unless it's even weirder than I thought. :p

The Kid Myers in H4 isn't REAL. He's a hallucination by a scared little girl who's never SEEN the real Kid Myers. Would you really expect her imagination to conjure up the spitting image? Or just a reasonable facsimile?

How is that a cop-out?

:bow: Excellent point!

MischievousSpirit
07-29-2009, 09:37 PM
Huh? How the FUCK is that even a valid comparison? haha As far as I can recall, Tommy wasn't just a hallucination in H6...unless it's even weirder than I thought. :p

The Kid Myers in H4 isn't REAL. He's a hallucination by a scared little girl who's never SEEN the real Kid Myers. Would you really expect her imagination to conjure up the spitting image? Or just a reasonable facsimile?

How is that a cop-out?

She had a picture of kid Myers in the clown costume in front of the Myers house in her keepsake box with the other photos of her mom and pop! So she HAS seen him! Remember? :D

EvilOnTwoLegs
07-29-2009, 09:39 PM
She had a picture of kid Myers in the clown costume in front of the Myers house in her keepsake box with the other photos of her mom and pop! So she HAS seen him! Remember? :D

Hmmmmmmm...screen cap?

Who the fuck would've taken that picture? haha

And even if she DID have a shitty old picture from twenty five years earlier, I'm gonna say that her hallucination STILL wouldn't be exactly consistent with that reality. It's still a hallucination, after all.

MischievousSpirit
07-29-2009, 09:47 PM
Hmmmmmmm...screen cap?

Who the fuck would've taken that picture? haha

And even if she DID have a shitty old picture from twenty five years earlier, I'm gonna say that her hallucination STILL wouldn't be exactly consistent with that reality. It's still a hallucination, after all.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v715/MischievousSpirit/PDVD_001.gif<=--- click for a bigger view!

My theory is that the parents took this photo Halloween day before he snapped. :D

EvilOnTwoLegs
07-29-2009, 09:49 PM
Yeah, there's no way she'd be able to get enough detail out of that crappy picture. haha And most seven-year-olds (or adults, for that matter) don't have anywhere NEAR 100&#37; visual recall, anyway. Her imagination came up with the image of a young blond boy in a clown costume, which is close enough.

Unless she has a photographic memory (which I don't believe was ever mentioned in the films), this is a moot argument.

heavymetal
07-29-2009, 09:50 PM
That looks nothing like the kid in the mirror.

The kid in the mirror appeared to have shorter hair. That kid's hair looks more like the kid from H2.

MischievousSpirit
07-29-2009, 09:52 PM
It's called suspension of belief, people! Every kid Myers seen is supposed to be the same from the first movie. (Save for RZH of course!)

EvilOnTwoLegs
07-29-2009, 09:57 PM
I'm just pointing out that they could've done a hell of a lot better for H2's recast, that's all. I mean, it's a non-speaking role...they didn't even need a good actor. And STILL they couldn't get a kid who at least vaguely resembled Will Sandin?

I really liked getting in this debate more, though, when people were pissing and moaning about Daeg getting recast for Zombie's H2. :p

The Source
07-29-2009, 09:57 PM
It's called suspension of belief, people! Every kid Myers seen is supposed to be the same from the first movie. (Save for RZH of course!)suspension of disbelief, Joe. :p

heavymetal
07-29-2009, 09:58 PM
Hahahaha. Suspension of disbelief. Either way, it makes no sense.

Danny Strode
07-30-2009, 12:48 PM
Huh? How the FUCK is that even a valid comparison? haha As far as I can recall, Tommy wasn't just a hallucination in H6...unless it's even weirder than I thought. :p

The Kid Myers in H4 isn't REAL. He's a hallucination by a scared little girl who's never SEEN the real Kid Myers. Would you really expect her imagination to conjure up the spitting image? Or just a reasonable facsimile?

How is that a cop-out?

Calm down, dude. I just had to give you shit. The H2 thread may have the whole "I wouldn't put it past Rob" bit, and with every thread I enter, I'll always have "That's a cop out.". :D