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View Full Version : Michael's Escape Theatrical or Director



tabby
12-19-2007, 05:29 AM
I have just finished watching the director's cut of Halloween and I hate to say this, but the escape of Michael was way more disturbing than the one in the theatrical version. I mean, it was kind of goofy the way he just busted his chains in the T-cut, but to watch as those redneck guard fuckers with that girl left me feeling uneasy.:bigeyes:

now I turn it to you. which is better, the T-cut with the guards transferring him and failed or the D-cut with the rednecks rape artists? thank you for your kind attention.

qwerty90221
12-19-2007, 05:31 AM
Theatrical Cut.

discvader
12-19-2007, 06:30 AM
The rape scene is annoying. I hate rape scenes in any movie, let alone a Halloween movie, not needed.

Severed
12-19-2007, 06:51 AM
I am voting for the rape scene. I found it very disturbing and I thought it made for a better escape.

Todd
12-19-2007, 08:26 AM
The rape scene escape sucks for a couple of reasons.
It makes Michaels escape seem too random.
I mean, he is presented with an opportunity to break out that he couldn't have seen coming, and just by coincidence, it coincided with the anniversary of his initial murder spree, aka halloween. Not to mention that killing those two rapists almost made Michael seem heroic. In the theatrical cut Michael would have known in advance that he was going to be moved and could have planned to escape. It's still a little too perfect for this to have happened so close halloween, but the same could be said of Michaels escape in the original.

1978 COLLECTOR
12-19-2007, 09:00 AM
I say both are EQUALY good, allthough, the rape version is more disturbing, AND THAT IS GOOD! Made this Halloween more distourbing and scarry. The theatrical version is ok, but not really scarry, but it did hurt when Trejo died, because he is a good actor and I am waiting for R.R.'s MACHETE.

Severed
12-19-2007, 09:57 AM
The rape scene escape sucks for a couple of reasons.
It makes Michaels escape seem too random.
I mean, he is presented with an opportunity to break out that he couldn't have seen coming, and just by coincidence, it coincided with the anniversary of his initial murder spree, aka halloween. Not to mention that killing those two rapists almost made Michael seem heroic. In the theatrical cut Michael would have known in advance that he was going to be moved and could have planned to escape. It's still a little too perfect for this to have happened so close halloween, but the same could be said of Michaels escape in the original.

I would agree EXCEPT Michael did not kill the guards for raping the girl. He killed them cause they were touching his masks. It's not like in Jason Takes Manhattan when Jason kills the rapists.

Todd
12-19-2007, 10:57 AM
I would agree EXCEPT Michael did not kill the guards for raping the girl. He killed them cause they were touching his masks. It's not like in Jason Takes Manhattan when Jason kills the rapists.
Yeah, I know he didn't kill them for raping the girl, but they weren't exactly sympathetic vitcims. They actually had it coming. Now when he killed Danny Trejos character, THAT showed Michaels true colors.

Danny Strode
12-19-2007, 11:08 AM
The rape scene escape sucks for a couple of reasons.
It makes Michaels escape seem too random.
I mean, he is presented with an opportunity to break out that he couldn't have seen coming, and just by coincidence, it coincided with the anniversary of his initial murder spree, aka halloween. Not to mention that killing those two rapists almost made Michael seem heroic. In the theatrical cut Michael would have known in advance that he was going to be moved and could have planned to escape. It's still a little too perfect for this to have happened so close halloween, but the same could be said of Michaels escape in the original.

I agree. That's exactly why I like the theatrical cut escape better.

Patrick1679
12-19-2007, 11:39 AM
I would say the theatrical version.

The rape scene wasn't as bad as what I thought it would be. It wasn't that graphic. Not that I enjoyed it but it just wasn't as shocking as I thought it would be. In fact, it didn't make sense for me. They just decide to go into his cell and rape the girl?

But i'm glad he killed those fu@#@#s.

Silverpsycho
12-19-2007, 02:21 PM
The rape escape works better, but by no means am I a fan of it. I voted that neither of the escape scenes are good. However, I don't really consider them equally bad. The escape with the cops just didn't feel right and it didn't work for me.

Halloween444
12-19-2007, 02:26 PM
Man I really loved the T-cut but my big problem with this version is the escape scene I mean Myers is like The Incredible Hulk when he break the chains at smith's grove it just dont make sense to me I prefer the rape scene escape It was so Rob Zombie I was shocked and couldn't breath anymore first time I saw it.Gotta love Kendal Jacks

Kinick
12-19-2007, 02:33 PM
Yeah, there's nothing between the two of them for me too. I'll take or leave either.

As long as Ismael's scene still remained I'm happy... enough. I think the main reason why I preferred the Theatrical escape was because of this, but now it's here too.

I believe (in regards to the Unrated) the Parole Sequence would have been a great addition to preface the rape scene to show that transfer was denied.

I would also have had the scene of Michael eventually walking out of the grounds. Damn, this could have been so much more!

boogeyman87
12-19-2007, 03:40 PM
I don't necessarily like the rape scene (pretty generic if you ask me) but I love the night shift deleted scene that follows it. I kinda wish they had left that in there for its reminiscence of HII.

The Dark Shape
12-19-2007, 03:44 PM
God, I don't know. The theatrical version feels really out of place. Why are they transferring him? What movie is this from? Etc. In that regard, the rape feels more organic with the rest of the film. But it's still completely unnecessary.

tabby
12-19-2007, 05:29 PM
But i'm glad he killed those fu@#@#s.


thank you. forgive me if that sounds harsh, but despite the fact I'm not too keen on watching rape scenes in any kind of medium, that's just my inner feminist shining through.

Roswell
12-19-2007, 06:04 PM
I liked both, but the director's cut escape is better.

Todd 78
12-19-2007, 06:22 PM
I liked both, but the director's cut escape is better.


I agree. The rape sene was disturbing, which in a horror film is a good thing, and it flowed better with the film to me.


Todd,
In ever horror film at least a coupleof asshole die. Friday the 13th was the master of this. I think the fact that Trejo dies after twas greay, it shows Michael doesnt have a litmust test on who he kils, whether you are nice or a jerk, is irelevent to him, he has no comprehension to human feelings

Todd
12-19-2007, 06:37 PM
Todd,
In ever horror film at least a coupleof asshole die. Friday the 13th was the master of this. I think the fact that Trejo dies after twas greay, it shows Michael doesnt have a litmust test on who he kils, whether you are nice or a jerk, is irelevent to him, he has no comprehension to human feelings
I've been watching movies for a very long time, so I'm well aware that in many horror films a couple of "assholes " die. The point I'm making is that the casual viewers, who probably don't disect movies like we do here, would likely be cheering Michael on during that scene. Michael killed them because they messed with his stuff, not because they were raping that girl, but would most people catch that or even care? The guards who he killed in the threatrical version weren't doing anything but their jobs. That's why Michael killing them was more effective in terms of showing us who he is. I've also pointed out other reasons I didn't care for the rape scene escape.
One thing I caught about the D-cut was the Smiths Grove administrator saying that Haddonfield was a hundred miles away. Uh, pardon moi, but didn't Rob say that Michael wouldn't drive in this movie? Are we supposed to believe that he walked a hundred miles?

Khan
12-19-2007, 06:40 PM
He teleported like Jason Voorhees.

PatientX
12-19-2007, 06:51 PM
I would agree EXCEPT Michael did not kill the guards for raping the girl. He killed them cause they were touching his masks. It's not like in Jason Takes Manhattan when Jason kills the rapists.

Exactly. He didn't even move when they were raping her but as soon as the guy touched his masks *SNAP*

The way he breaks out in this version seems more plausable than the original.

MichaelJrdnMyrs
12-19-2007, 09:19 PM
Wow, the rapin seems a lot more popular now. Sweet, sweet rape!

I'd prefer the original by a nose hair if the logistics made more sense.

All in all I'd say both escapes are pretty fucking stupid. I'm sure somewhere an inmate escaped a prison or asylum in an intriguing way. Copy or base the scene off that, since this version was supposed to be so crazy realistic, and leave Hulk Michael's back in the comic book from whence it came.

mmyers78
12-20-2007, 01:24 PM
I like the theatrical scene better, a rape scene doesn't belong in Halloween, but that's just my opinion.

HORRORCHIC
12-20-2007, 02:19 PM
I like the theatrical scene better, a rape scene doesn't belong in Halloween, but that's just my opinion.

I agree with you 100%. I thought it was obviously more disturbing than the theatrical escape scene but very unnecessary and like you said doesnt fit in a Halloween movie.

halo thirty one
12-20-2007, 03:07 PM
I liked the theatrical scene because I liked the security guard characters. Their idle chit chat was a fun to watch. The fact they were transferring him on Halloween eve was pretty random. In fact, it was as random as.............umm, the fact that they were transferring Michael on Halloween eve in the original. Michael being transferred in either movie doesn't bother me. The fact that the rape also occurs on Halloween eve doesn't bother me either. Maybe Noel Kluggs knew the date and that's how he got the idea to do what he did. I'm not going to stress why either event occurred on the date that it did. I just thought the theatrical escape was more entertaining to watch.

Kinick
12-21-2007, 06:57 AM
One thing I caught about the D-cut was the Smiths Grove administrator saying that Haddonfield was a hundred miles away. Uh, pardon moi, but didn't Rob say that Michael wouldn't drive in this movie? Are we supposed to believe that he walked a hundred miles?

Yeah, Rob says on the commentary that was one of the pieces of dialogue that he stole from the original.

You see, this shows how out of his depth Rob was with this whole thing. He forgot that ther large fanbase has to do with the Mythology of these films. That's why they are so intriguing and have lived for so long. He thinks throwing in pieces here and there from the original, will work and be a great call-back, but, that's not the case.

In the end Rob didn't have a clear idea of what he was going for. I mean Loomis is dead / not dead. Michael is pure evil / sympathetic. Rape escape / other one. You can't take that serious.... the many cuts aswell, it's still any way the best it could be.

Todd 78
12-21-2007, 07:03 AM
Yeah, Rob says on the commentary that was one of the pieces of dialogue that he stole from the original.

You see, this shows how out of his depth Rob was with this whole thing. He forgot that ther large fanbase has to do with the Mythology of these films. That's why they are so intriguing and have lived for so long. He thinks throwing in pieces here and there from the original, will work and be a great call-back, but, that's not the case.

In the end Rob didn't have a clear idea of what he was going for. I mean Loomis is dead / not dead. Michael is pure evil / sympathetic. Rape escape / other one. You can't take that serious.... the many cuts aswell, it's still any way the best it could be.


I still want to know how Michael was sympathetic. Youu saw a different film than me. I saw a psychopath. Even as kid, he weasn't all there. Boo Hoo he got bullied a little bit.

You know there are 5 cuts to Blade Runner directed by Ridley Scott, its not new to get different versions of films especially in the dvd age, so go after him over this is just silly. Directors don't always have final say in the films, they still have to listen to studios

Khan
12-21-2007, 07:12 AM
Directors don't always have final say in the films, they still have to listen to studios

Yeah, Rob's fanboys act like he owns the studio and does what he wants to do.

However, I do agree that Rob was in way over his head.

Kinick
12-21-2007, 07:26 AM
I still want to know how Michael was sympathetic. Youu saw a different film than me. I saw a psychopath. Even as kid, he weasn't all there. Boo Hoo he got bullied a little bit.

You know there are 5 cuts to Blade Runner directed by Ridley Scott, its not new to get different versions of films especially in the dvd age, so go after him over this is just silly. Directors don't always have final say in the films, they still have to listen to studios


Rob putting back in lines to give him more of a reason to kill. Rob not giving a clear view on what Michael really is... (this works in the original, but here it seems he doesn't want to say it's because he's a product of his environment or he's pure evil, which also was cut out) he says he's true psychopath, but only wants to get his Boo back. He throws in a bit of bullying, Michael says he's ugly that's why he wears the masks etc, but it could be this or that.

There wasn't five cuts in a matter of two or three months. Rob didn't know what version to have, he even said he was trying to put together any cut for the Theatrical. I really can't involve myself with something that is the way it is for the sake of it (when it could have been a lot more, which many know this film could have been). He was getting short for time so he shot something quick etc. until he got to refilm it. God knows what else had planned but had to make do with in the end!

JOeKER
12-21-2007, 08:23 AM
I voted for both equally good for the simple fact that I'm a strong believer in letting the director have final say for a scene and the rape scene is what Rob really wanted for his film. I do like the guard scene because of the characters, but I appreciate both for what they are. They both have their good and not-so-believable points.

Todd 78
12-21-2007, 08:58 AM
Yeah, Rob's fanboys act like he owns the studio and does what he wants to do.

However, I do agree that Rob was in way over his head.

Even more accomplished directors have studios putting pressure on them.

BankytheHack
12-21-2007, 09:12 AM
I'd have to go with the Director's Cut escape. The theatrical version just feels like, pardon my pun, overkill.

I still think the Danny Trejo death could've been handled better. First, there wasn't enough character interaction between him and Michael to make Michael's killing of him seem that horrible. Also, his death went on FAR too long. It almost felt like a scene out of one of the Scary Movie flicks.

Khan
12-21-2007, 09:25 AM
Even more accomplished directors have studios putting pressure on them.

There are a select few who have final cut, but they tend to be legendary in the industry and usually have their own production companies.

Todd
12-21-2007, 11:11 AM
Yeah, Rob says on the commentary that was one of the pieces of dialogue that he stole from the original.

You see, this shows how out of his depth Rob was with this whole thing. He forgot that ther large fanbase has to do with the Mythology of these films. That's why they are so intriguing and have lived for so long. He thinks throwing in pieces here and there from the original, will work and be a great call-back, but, that's not the case.

In the end Rob didn't have a clear idea of what he was going for. I mean Loomis is dead / not dead. Michael is pure evil / sympathetic. Rape escape / other one. You can't take that serious.... the many cuts aswell, it's still any way the best it could be.
Well, Rob said Michael wouldn't drive in this movie, but in the D-cut it's stated that Smiths Grove is a hundred miles away from Haddonfield. Michael couldn't have walked all that way in such a short period of time.
Big flaw in logic, especially since Rob made such a point out of it.
As far as Loomis being dead or not goes, I didn't think his fate was so clear in the theatrical cut, so I don't have a problem with him surviving in the D-cut.
I did feel that some of the lines in this movie that were taken from the original seemed out of place or even forced.

BankytheHack
12-21-2007, 11:23 AM
Yeah, Rob says on the commentary that was one of the pieces of dialogue that he stole from the original.

You see, this shows how out of his depth Rob was with this whole thing. He forgot that ther large fanbase has to do with the Mythology of these films. That's why they are so intriguing and have lived for so long. He thinks throwing in pieces here and there from the original, will work and be a great call-back, but, that's not the case.

In the end Rob didn't have a clear idea of what he was going for. I mean Loomis is dead / not dead. Michael is pure evil / sympathetic. Rape escape / other one. You can't take that serious.... the many cuts aswell, it's still any way the best it could be.

Rob Zombie's Halloween is becoming like the original Star Wars Trilogy. Zombie will probably tinker with this thing for years.

Khan
12-21-2007, 11:31 AM
You are comparing apples and oranges.

Lucas is a multibillionaire who is so powerful that he has the authority to do just about anything he pleases when it comes to Star Wars.

Zombie owns nothing, and has no say in the matter.

If the studio heads tell him he can create yet another cut, then it will happen, but Zombie is powerless otherwise.

BankytheHack
12-21-2007, 12:45 PM
You are comparing apples and oranges.

Lucas is a multibillionaire who is so powerful that he has the authority to do just about anything he pleases when it comes to Star Wars.

Zombie owns nothing, and has no say in the matter.

If the studio heads tell him he can create yet another cut, then it will happen, but zombie is powerless otherwise.

Re-read my post. I say nothing about ownership. If Zombie wanted to put out a new cut 5 years down the road I really don't think Dimension would have a problem with it since this film has been one of their few hits from the past few years.

The Dark Shape
12-21-2007, 12:52 PM
There are two cuts of Halloween -- theatrical version and unrated director's cut. That's hardly any different from other horror films these days. The workprint was an in-progress version of the movie, never final. It's not really fair to demonize him and say he didn't have a real vision when in fact he was simply seeing how the film came together, which is the standard process these days.


I still think the Danny Trejo death could've been handled better. First, there wasn't enough character interaction between him and Michael to make Michael's killing of him seem that horrible. Also, his death went on FAR too long. It almost felt like a scene out of one of the Scary Movie flicks.

The Sin City angle looking up from the sink didn't help.

Todd
12-21-2007, 12:54 PM
Re-read my post. I say nothing about ownership. If Zombie wanted to put out a new cut 5 years down the road I really don't think Dimension would have a problem with it since this film has been one of their few hits from the past few years.
I can see your point.
They have released several versions of most of the other Halloween movies without changing or adding anything significant in some cases, so it's not out of the question that they would let Zombie tinker with his movie a little more.
I don't know why he would want to, though.

The Dark Shape
12-21-2007, 12:56 PM
I can see your point.
They have released several versions of most of the other Halloween movies without changing or adding anything significant in some cases,

Uh, what? Officially, there's an extended version of the original Halloween on DVD, and that's about it. TV versions with deleted footage stuffed in to pad things out don't count, and the Producer's Cut of H6 and workprint of Resurrection aren't official cuts of the movie.

Frazetta
12-21-2007, 01:47 PM
I like both just about the same. I don'tt really care for the rape scene, which felt forced & out of place, & Trejo's death is still far too long but both versions work.

I really liked the deleted scenes of Michael unlocking the Inmates doors & leaving the building but stopping to look back. Both were very creepy & should have made their way into the final cut of the film.

Todd
12-21-2007, 04:16 PM
Uh, what? Officially, there's an extended version of the original Halloween on DVD, and that's about it. TV versions with deleted footage stuffed in to pad things out don't count, and the Producer's Cut of H6 and workprint of Resurrection aren't official cuts of the movie.
How many times has Halloween been released on vhs and dvd?
H4-5?

Lucy
12-21-2007, 06:46 PM
I liked the Director's Cut version better because I liked him opening all the doors for the other patients to get out and then walking off the grounds, but I didn't like the rape scene.

The Dark Shape
12-21-2007, 07:52 PM
How many times has Halloween been released on vhs and dvd?
H4-5?

And they're all the same cut of the film.

Dark Chaos
12-21-2007, 08:29 PM
I like the t-cut because it shows how brutal this Mike is. But after seeing the d-cut the t-cut escape does not make sense, it shows him getting denied for parole and in the T-cut he is being transfered? The D-cut could have done with out a rape scene those rednecks could have just went in there and fucked with Michael, for about 5 seconds to end up in the same situations minus the rape.

tmdfilms
12-21-2007, 09:42 PM
The theatrical Cuts escape is more of what I have come to expect from this movie franchise. Just look at H4 in the ambulance. I can honestly say that Mr. Zombie put his own sick imprint on the Unrated version with the unwanted rape scene.It seems to me if Zombie wants to make a smut movie then do it and not bring it to a movie franchise that has never had to resort to such things.....its just ludicrous:crazy:.Instead of that kind of scene maybe he could have had the gaurds harassing Michael and that is what sets him off...maybe one of them actually new that his mother was a stripper?Whatever it couldve been would probably be better than that.

Mr. Bruce
12-22-2007, 01:22 AM
Theatrical Cut... The rape thing was just too stupid.

What I am still trying to figure out was how the fuck did Myers get that 100 miles to Haddonfield.

Todd
12-22-2007, 06:15 AM
And they're all the same cut of the film.
Yes!
Thank you!
That's why I said this:
"They have had new releases of most other Halloween movies without changing or adding anything significant in some cases, so it's not out of the question that they would let Zombie tinker with his movie a little more."

So tell me again what I said in my post that was wrong?

Severed
12-22-2007, 06:52 AM
The rape scene escape sucks for a couple of reasons.
It makes Michaels escape seem too random.
I mean, he is presented with an opportunity to break out that he couldn't have seen coming, and just by coincidence, it coincided with the anniversary of his initial murder spree, aka halloween. Not to mention that killing those two rapists almost made Michael seem heroic. In the theatrical cut Michael would have known in advance that he was going to be moved and could have planned to escape. It's still a little too perfect for this to have happened so close halloween, but the same could be said of Michaels escape in the original.

The problem I had with the theatrical escape was:

1. Why are they moving Michael? No reason given.
2. As you mentioned: Wow, what a coincidence. They move him on Halloween.

As far as him breaking the straps and killing everyone, I thought that was pretty cool. Especially when he is dragging the body away. On the other hand, I felt the rape scene was fine. One of the reasons it didn't feel like a coincidence to me was we knew that the Kluggs character had messed up feelings toward Michael. When him and his cousin are looking to mess with the girl, he looks down at Michael's cell like it would be the perfect place for them to do the horrible act.

samhain51
12-22-2007, 07:02 AM
I would have to go with the theatrical even though the directors cut was more believable

Severed
12-22-2007, 07:05 AM
Theatrical Cut... The rape thing was just too stupid.

What I am still trying to figure out was how the fuck did Myers get that 100 miles to Haddonfield.

Didn't you see his feet? He walked. Or stole Joe Grizzly's truck and drove it there. :)

"That's Joe Grizzly's truck, Bitch"

Todd
12-22-2007, 07:19 AM
The problem I had with the theatrical escape was:

1. Why are they moving Michael? No reason given.
2. As you mentioned: Wow, what a coincidence. They move him on Halloween.

As far as him breaking the straps and killing everyone, I thought that was pretty cool. Especially when he is dragging the body away. On the other hand, I felt the rape scene was fine. One of the reasons it didn't feel like a coincidence to me was we knew that the Kluggs character had messed up feelings toward Michael. When him and his cousin are looking to mess with the girl, he looks down at Michael's cell like it would be the perfect place for them to do the horrible act.
Both the rape escape and the theatrical version are a bit implausible because it's a whopper of a coincidence that Michael just happens to get this opportunity to break out so close to halloween. However, the rape version of it is even more of a problem because it makes it his escape seem completely random. He couldn't have known those two attendants were going to bring that female into his room that night to rape her. In the theatrical version, it's possible that Michael knew in advance that he was going to be moved that night. It's also not out of the question that he had done something to cause this to happen. Maybe he wanted to break out close to halloween, so he commited some kind of act that he knew would result in his being moved to a more secure place? In that case, Michael could have planned the whole thing.

Severed
12-22-2007, 07:26 AM
Both the rape escape and the theatrical version are a bit implausible because it's a whopper of a coincidence that Michael just happens to get this opportunity to break out so close to halloween. However, the rape version of it is even more of a problem because it makes it his escape seem completely random. He couldn't have known those two attendants were going to bring that female into his room that night to rape her. In the theatrical version, it's possible that Michael knew in advance that he was going to be moved that night. It's also not out of the question that he had done something to cause this to happen. Maybe he wanted to break out close to halloween, so he commited some kind of act that he knew would result in his being moved to a more secure place? In that case, Michael could have planned the whole thing.

Well, it's possible (I guess) that in the rape verison, Michael was not planning to escape. It just happened.

Todd
12-22-2007, 08:32 AM
Well, it's possible (I guess) that in the rape verison, Michael was not planning to escape. It just happened.
That's my point.
In the rape version of things, Michael couldn't have planned his escape at all, let alone managed to have it happen so close to halloween. In the theatrical version, he probably knew he was going to be moved and might even have done something to precipitate it.

Frazetta
12-24-2007, 09:19 AM
That's my point.
In the rape version of things, Michael couldn't have planned his escape at all, let alone managed to have it happen so close to halloween. In the theatrical version, he probably knew he was going to be moved and might even have done something to precipitate it.He seemed to not even think of escaping while the actual rape was going on. It wasn't until they started wearing his masks that he actually turned his attention to them. In the theatrical cut he seemed to be aware of what was going on & planning his next movement.

renee30152
12-25-2007, 01:25 PM
I thought the theatrical version was much better. The rape was senseless. It had nothing to do with his escape other then after raping the poor girl they touched his mask and that is what really set him off.

Todd
12-25-2007, 03:03 PM
I thought the theatrical version was much better. The rape was senseless. It had nothing to do with his escape other then after raping the poor girl they touched his mask and that is what really set him off.
Yeah, that's how I see it.
The rape was just thrown in to be disturbing.
To that end, it was effective.
It didn't make sense for Michael to escape that way, though.
If he wanted to break out, why would he have waited for the attendants to attack that gir?
He couldn't have seen it coming.
The move from one ward to another, he would have know about in advance.
And like I said in an earlier post, it's possible that Michael could have done something that caused this move.

WhiteZombie
12-25-2007, 03:06 PM
Lol did Temple and the other guy (cant remember the name) honestly belive that could take Michael?. I know they wernt expecting an attack, but they were working the graveyard shift, and touching all his shit which they knew he hates.

Severed
12-25-2007, 04:54 PM
Lol did Temple and the other guy (cant remember the name) honestly belive that could take Michael?. I know they wernt expecting an attack, but they were working the graveyard shift, and touching all his shit which they knew he hates.


I doubt it. But I think the reason they decided to mess with him was he had been like a "comatose kitten". According to Zombie on the commentary, he says Temple came up with a back-story for his character saying the reason he wanted to abuse Michael was because he was a big guy that he could torture without have to worry about him fighting back. I guess we saw how that worked out.

Todd
12-25-2007, 05:32 PM
I doubt it. But I think the reason they decided to mess with him was he had been like a "comatose kitten". According to Zombie on the commentary, he says Temple came up with a back-story for his character saying the reason he wanted to abuse Michael was because he was a big guy that he could torture without have to worry about him fighting back. I guess we saw how that worked out.
Comatose kitten or not, you'd have to be a total dipshit to deliberately provoke a 6'9, 270 pound whacko who was institutionalized for murdering four people, not to mention the nurse he killed after being placed there.

Frazetta
12-25-2007, 06:34 PM
I also love the deleted Graveyard scene as opposed to the theatrical version with Sid Haig.

MrShape666
12-25-2007, 07:51 PM
I think everyone overracted to the rape scene. It seemed like a lot of things in the movie, where Zombie portrayed an amoral world where Myers was only marginally more dangerous then the rest of the people around him. That and the fact that it seemed to reflect how far gone Myers is that he doesn't react at all until the guy touches his mask. In a lot of ways, Micheal's cold unemotional persona is like some kind of sanity in the world Zombie depicted, more suited for life in it then the uptight disturbed people around him.

tama_drummer91
12-25-2007, 09:36 PM
I found the rape scene to be quite a bit more effective. Very dark scene, at least to me.

Khan
12-25-2007, 09:40 PM
You also think that Busta was one of the best characters in the series. :bastard:

*Check out my sig*

tama_drummer91
12-25-2007, 09:50 PM
You also think that Busta was one of the best characters in the series. :bastard:

*Check out my sig*


Do you track down all my posts:)?

Love that sig of yours. You doing ok tonight? Wanna have a hugh massive debate on anything???

Khan
12-25-2007, 09:58 PM
Well, you are saying that rape is a good thing!

tama_drummer91
12-25-2007, 10:01 PM
Well, you are saying that rape is a good thing!

By no means so. Its an awful thing. Im just saying it really added to the dark mood of the film.

mr_casper_sgv
12-27-2007, 09:47 AM
I loved how they showed more of myers stalking laurie and so on but the rape scene, I didnt like.

Dr_Loomis02
12-27-2007, 02:05 PM
I voted both equally good because it's the closest thing to my opinion of both. I find that the theatrical break out is a bit over the top, but I didn't mind it.
However, the rape scene provides a more realistic escape, but the rape itself is so ridiculous, it really ruins that scene. They could've just had the guards opening the door and fucking with him and his masks, that would make more sense and be a lot less pointless.

krustytheklown
12-27-2007, 02:15 PM
The rape scene escape sucks for a couple of reasons.
It makes Michaels escape seem too random.
I mean, he is presented with an opportunity to break out that he couldn't have seen coming, and just by coincidence, it coincided with the anniversary of his initial murder spree, aka halloween. Not to mention that killing those two rapists almost made Michael seem heroic. In the theatrical cut Michael would have known in advance that he was going to be moved and could have planned to escape. It's still a little too perfect for this to have happened so close halloween, but the same could be said of Michaels escape in the original.

i agree. the concept of halloween can only work with the whole"some secret silent alarm to trigger him off" concept. the idea that micheal waiting with inhumanely patience, waiting for the right time, to strike during halloween, made H1 great that was the problem with many sequels. how many different ideas can you come up with for michael to escape or something right during halloween. halloween is very limited in how many ways you can explain micheal escaping to terrorize haddonfield. he cant really exist outside an institution, so whats he doing in between movies. i enjoyed RZ halloween, but didnt like either of his escapes. no explanation should be given. loomis leaving him might explain why he escaped, but its like being moved or the guards raping that chick. what are the odds this would occur on halloween? not very.just like in H4.what are the odds hed be transplanted on halloween? i would have prefered a more mysterious escape, one that leaves it up to us how and why he escaped.only problem is, unlike H1, he would be under supermax as he brutally killed his family and a nurse after he got there. in H1 he killed his sister then sat motionless for 15 years. im surprised they even had him locked up. loomis would look like an idiot saying hes the devil. in RZ its retarded that bracket didnt lock the town down after loomis told him he escaped.the guy was a brutal murderer who killed about six people during his escape. im rambling, back to work

Todd
12-27-2007, 04:31 PM
i agree. the concept of halloween can only work with the whole"some secret silent alarm to trigger him off" concept. the idea that micheal waiting with inhumanely patience, waiting for the right time, to strike during halloween, made H1 great that was the problem with many sequels. how many different ideas can you come up with for michael to escape or something right during halloween. halloween is very limited in how many ways you can explain micheal escaping to terrorize haddonfield. he cant really exist outside an institution, so whats he doing in between movies. i enjoyed RZ halloween, but didnt like either of his escapes. no explanation should be given. loomis leaving him might explain why he escaped, but its like being moved or the guards raping that chick. what are the odds this would occur on halloween? not very.just like in H4.what are the odds hed be transplanted on halloween? i would have prefered a more mysterious escape, one that leaves it up to us how and why he escaped.only problem is, unlike H1, he would be under supermax as he brutally killed his family and a nurse after he got there. in H1 he killed his sister then sat motionless for 15 years. im surprised they even had him locked up. loomis would look like an idiot saying hes the devil. in RZ its retarded that bracket didnt lock the town down after loomis told him he escaped.the guy was a brutal murderer who killed about six people during his escape. im rambling, back to work
Yep, in RZ's version Michael broke out of Smiths Grove near halloween just because he did.

Ravenheart
12-28-2007, 03:10 AM
I was surprised that they showed the rape scene in the uncut version.Not sure which escape I liked more.They were both pretty good.One thing I wasn't sure of though,in the theatrical version,when Michael's mom is watching the home movies just before she blows her head off,was the music in that scene instrumental or was it an actual song.I thought I remembered Only Women Bleed by Alice Cooper was playing during that scene when I saw it in the theater and when I watched the DVD last night,it was instrumental music.

tama_drummer91
12-28-2007, 03:18 AM
Well, after watching the theatrical version again I can safely say the Directors cut is quite a bit better. Too many cool shots and scenes are missing in the Theatrical version. If the Directors cut would have made it into the theater I would have liked the film better at the time. I love the film now, but upon the first theatrical viewing I just thought it was pretty good.

I guess I prefer the escape in the theatrical version.

Todd
12-28-2007, 11:19 AM
One thing I didn't understand why they changed in the D-cut was the death of Morgan Strode. In the theatrical version, he sees Michael coming and is initially spooked, but then says something to the effect of, "You scared the shit out of me" right before Michael slashes him. In the D-cut they changed it so that he turns around and is immediately killed before he even has a chance to see it coming. I thought him seeing Michael, getting a shock, and then laughing it off right before Michael whacks him was the better scene.

Kinick
12-28-2007, 11:37 AM
One thing I didn't understand why they changed in the D-cut was the death of Morgan Strode. In the theatrical version, he sees Michael coming and is initially spooked, but then says something to the effect of, "You scared the shit out of me" right before Michael slashes him. In the D-cut they changed it so that he turns around and is immediately killed before he even has a chance to see it coming. I thought him seeing Michael, getting a shock, and then laughing it off right before Michael whacks him was the better scene.

You mean the Workprint? They had it changed for the Theatrical also. But, yeah, I agree that the original version was much better. As did many people I have shown it to did. Obviously it was to try and get a jump scare, but the WP version was a lot cooler.

There was also a few parts where we saw Michael watching, but Rob says he decided against that.

Todd
12-28-2007, 01:56 PM
You mean the Workprint? They had it changed for the Theatrical also. But, yeah, I agree that the original version was much better. As did many people I have shown it to did. Obviously it was to try and get a jump scare, but the WP version was a lot cooler.

There was also a few parts where we saw Michael watching, but Rob says he decided against that.
Yeah, I must have been thinking about the workprint.
Seeing Mr. Strode scared, relieved, and then slashed was a very effective scene. I guess they changed it just for the quick jump, but there were plenty of other places for them to have done that.

FooFighters
12-28-2007, 04:19 PM
Definitely the original, I really didn't care for the whole rape thing.

krustytheklown
12-29-2007, 02:06 PM
I think everyone overracted to the rape scene. It seemed like a lot of things in the movie, where Zombie portrayed an amoral world where Myers was only marginally more dangerous then the rest of the people around him. That and the fact that it seemed to reflect how far gone Myers is that he doesn't react at all until the guy touches his mask. In a lot of ways, Micheal's cold unemotional persona is like some kind of sanity in the world Zombie depicted, more suited for life in it then the uptight disturbed people around him.

i found the rape scene distasteful and out of place even with a rob zombie production. its not that im offended to distasteful images, just the way they are presented. a rape scene in clockwork orange is portrayed with much more, i dont know, irony or insightfullness. it was necessary for the plot and also disturbing but in an intelligent way. the rape scene in halloween is just meant to be shocking, and on top of that really changes for the worse michaels timing for an escape as well as once again makes him out to be a hero, only harming people who provokes him. the more i see the DC the more im tempted to go buy the damn theatrical, or just keeping watching the WP

renee30152
12-29-2007, 03:13 PM
Yeah, that's how I see it.
The rape was just thrown in to be disturbing.
To that end, it was effective.
It didn't make sense for Michael to escape that way, though.
If he wanted to break out, why would he have waited for the attendants to attack that gir?
He couldn't have seen it coming.
The move from one ward to another, he would have know about in advance.
And like I said in an earlier post, it's possible that Michael could have done something that caused this move.

There was no point other then to be distrubing. Michael didn't even care they were raping the girl. He only looked up when they touched his mask. And didn't he end up killing the poor girl as well?
And why in the world would they taunt something so evil. They know he killed at least four people.

Todd
12-29-2007, 04:27 PM
There was no point other then to be distrubing. Michael didn't even care they were raping the girl. He only looked up when they touched his mask. And didn't he end up killing the poor girl as well?
And why in the world would they taunt something so evil. They know he killed at least four people.
Because they were dipshits, I guess. Why you would torment a nearly seven foot tall, 250 pound whacko who murdered five people when he was a little kid, I have no idea. No rational person would do such a thing. Where did you get that Michael killed the girl who had been raped, though?

wyatt s
12-29-2007, 09:14 PM
I didn't necessarily like any of the escapes. Nor did I hate either of them. I have to say though that I prefer the theatrical cut escape as it atleast makes some amount of sense. I have no problem with rape in a film, it's meant to be disturbing and it is, it just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Frazetta
01-01-2008, 11:10 AM
Like I've said before the one redeeming quality about the rape scene is that we get to see Noel Kluggs get his, which for somereason Zombie left out of the theatrical cut, after building him up as a complete Dickhead.

Ravenheart
01-01-2008, 11:11 AM
I liked the deleted scene where Michael goes around letting all the other patients out.

Frazetta
01-01-2008, 11:17 AM
I liked the deleted scene where Michael goes around letting all the other patients out.
I thought that was a very effective, creepy nod to the original.

Ravenheart
01-01-2008, 11:18 AM
I thought that was a very effective, creepy nod to the original.

Yeah I think it would have worked good in the movie.

Frazetta
01-01-2008, 11:20 AM
Yeah I think it would have worked good in the movie. I think there were afew deleted scenes that should have been in the movie espically from the Sanitarium.

Ravenheart
01-01-2008, 11:25 AM
There were a few deleted scenes I would have liked to have seen in the actual movie too.

Kinick
01-01-2008, 11:29 AM
I thought that was a very effective, creepy nod to the original.

Agreed. The only thing I didn't like was the way Tyler walked in some of those scenes. It's like he was trying to do the slow walk but it was just as if he was sliding his feet. Lift your feet dammit, haha. It doesn't correalate well when the scenes where he lashes out come in.

But, yeah, that and the parole sequence were great scenes that should have been fit in.

Bearscubsfan87
01-01-2008, 01:23 PM
Yeah, some of the deleted scenes would have been nice to have had in the movie. I prefer the theatrical cut escape, myself.

samhain51
01-01-2008, 01:25 PM
I REALLY LIKE THE THEATRICAL VERSION BETTERBUT ON THE OTHER HAND THE UNcut is more realistic I am so happy the raping assholes got what they deserved thats a great sighn of good cinematography!!!

The Dark Shape
01-01-2008, 02:14 PM
That has nothing to do with cinematography.

Khan
01-01-2008, 02:19 PM
Yeah, that deals with story, not camera work.

krustytheklown
01-02-2008, 11:53 AM
Agreed. The only thing I didn't like was the way Tyler walked in some of those scenes. It's like he was trying to do the slow walk but it was just as if he was sliding his feet. Lift your feet dammit, haha. It doesn't correalate well when the scenes where he lashes out come in.

But, yeah, that and the parole sequence were great scenes that should have been fit in.

its wierd, i really enjoyed tyler mane when he is the shape, but when hes in the sanitarium he comes off as too frankenstien like, shuffling his feet and looking three times the size of everyone else in that place. speaking of frankenstien, i didnt care for the new grunts they added for MM in the directors cut.

cloud2795
01-02-2008, 12:36 PM
Theatrical Cut the rape scene was kind of out of place and made me sick

Ravenheart
01-02-2008, 12:38 PM
Rape scenes usually bother me but strangely enough this one didn't.I guess because I knew they'd both get theirs after a few minutes.

Frazetta
01-02-2008, 08:08 PM
Rape scenes usually bother me but strangely enough this one didn't.I guess because I knew they'd both get theirs after a few minutes.
Tell that to the girl that got a Hillbilly buttplug:bigeyes:

*CHA*MAM*
01-08-2008, 11:33 AM
I said equally good because IMO, they both had some power to them that worked with the movie.

The T cut escape struck me not as "Wow Michael's so huge and strong he can break chains" but kinda like "He's THAT determined to get out of there." Ya know the old story that if people want to escape from someplace enough, they will do ANYTHING? Like those stories of guys in Alcatraz? The breaking of the chains to me is similar to the glass door breaking scene in H2... Michael is so deteremined that the chains cannot hold him back, and the guards were nothing.

Now the D-cut scene shared the shit out of me because I absolutely hate rape scenes in movies, they disturb me a lot. What makes me struggle through that scene is the fact that it comes off to me as Michael's one last spark of conscience before he goes almost completely evil. I never saw it as him flipping out over the masks being touched as much as the last good thing he'll ever do.

MaDMaNMaRz
01-15-2008, 04:38 PM
I wasn't a fan of either escape, really. But i'd say the Theatrical Cut's was better. The rape scene was just unnecessary and out of place. It also made Michael's escape seem REALLY random in a way.

Seeing Bill Moseley's cameo in the T-Cut was pretty cool as well.

Rage_Virus
01-18-2008, 06:39 PM
New to the boards




Honestly the problem I have with the theatrical escape...it just seems way to simple.... I mean why were they moving him at night??? and why were only like 5 guards(was that the right number?) assigned to move him? You would think that with such a high profile inmate/ such a violent killer, that they would have like 10 guards on him, most of which with high powered assault rifles?


But with the rape scene it seemed more appropriate... I mean Ismael told the guy "Don't touch his masks, he doesn't like it when people touch his masks"... It may have been a bit more shocking, but I think it made more sense:mike:

MyersFan28
01-19-2008, 04:29 PM
A question on guard deaths in the escap. Does anyone know how the female guard died? All we see if Michael put her up agaist the wall,a pop,and blood trickle from her neck.

I didn't like the rape scene,because it made me unseasy. Like watching an X rated movie. And it also didn't explain how all the dead guards were on the floor.

The T-Cut looks better because the guard scene.Look cool makes sense,and it fits in with Ismal's death scene.

BigBrother80
01-20-2008, 12:04 PM
I prefer the T-cut of this scene because it demonstrates how unstoppable Michael is.

But honestly, was this show of force and power really even necessary?
Maybe RZ thought the fans really wanted to see this, but it did not add anything for me.

A more evasive escape where MM takes out guards one at a time up until his "confrontation" withIsmael would have worked better IMO.

And the rape scene wasn't necassary as others have said.

Michael Voorhees
08-18-2011, 10:13 PM
Still prefer the T-Cut escape, & I think it could've been worked into the D-Cut, honestly. It flows much better, the acting is better, & it makes a lot more sense. I understand that mental patients are sexually abused a lot, but that scene was just completely random. What makes it sadder is that I've always viewed the scene as being hilarious the way it plays out, instead of being serious & dramatic, as it was intended.

The Saw
08-18-2011, 10:16 PM
TCut escape. Big time. The rape scene was unnecessary.

the 'M' clam
08-19-2011, 01:40 AM
I cant find the Theatrical Cut on DVD any where as I would love to see it again. I liked & I also voted for both of them. They are just as good as each other.

Captain Mal
08-19-2011, 02:00 AM
Theatrical, I fucking hate the rape scene.

the 'M' clam
08-19-2011, 02:07 AM
Theatrical, I fucking hate the rape scene.

I agree. There was no need to have a woman being rape in that scene as it is very disturbing to watch & it was bad for the female fans. I would like to see that scene cut as I have every respect for women.

A Dumb Question
08-19-2011, 02:28 AM
I would prefer no breakout scene at all, but I would certainly choose the theatrical version over the rape scene.

Dead By Dawn
08-19-2011, 02:42 AM
I chose the theatrical escape scene. Yeah, it happened way too fast and I wish Tom Towles, Bill Moseley, and Leslie Easterbrook would have gotten a little more screentime, but oh well. It's still decent.

Yeah, the rape scene works too I suppose but I'm not a fan of it. It's intense and disturbing, but as much as I like the changes Rob made with both films, I like my Halloweens to be rape free. That being said, I loved seeing those fuckers get what they deserved when Michael finally snapped. I'm also really glad that Michael didn't hurt the woman. I would have liked Michael less if he had.

Myers78-?
08-19-2011, 12:12 PM
I voted T-Cut. But it's really from a morality standpoint. The D-Cut's breakout scene is more realistic though. The T-Cut was kind of out of place and a little silly. I enjoy the T-Cut breakout more because it's more entertaining, but the D-Cut has more of a believable scene. It's funny, I watched the D-Cut with my mom about a year or two ago, and she was bothered by that scene, but I explained what Rob said in the commentary that it was realistic for those things to happen in sanitariums, and she actually agreed. She said years ago it was something you would hear about every now and then. Not like an epidemic, but she had heard of it. And this is another reason that the fact that Rob didn't specify a time frame is good, yet again.

bencost007
08-25-2011, 06:23 PM
It would've been way better for Michael to escape the same exact way with the car and everything.

Annie Brackett
11-02-2012, 11:33 AM
Theatrical. I absolutely hate the rape scene, it stopped me from watching the movie for a very long time. It was just totally unnecessary. Like, what was going through RZ's head?

"Omg, I have such a good idea! Lets have two greasy, sick, drunk hicks rape this young woman in Michael's bedroom! We can have them touch her vag and sniff their fingers, have her scream in pain on the bed! Omg, the fans will love it!!" :bouncewall:

EvilOnTwoLegs
11-02-2012, 01:38 PM
As much as I dislike the rape scene, it's for logistical reasons...not for "content" reasons. I don't think Zombie was expecting fans to "love it"...I think he fully intended for them to be upset and disturbed by it.

Roswell
11-02-2012, 02:14 PM
Zombie admittedly wrote himself into a corner when it came to the escape. By showing Michael's life inside the sanitarium, he became limited in how many ways he could have Michael escape from there. I'm not a fan of either escape scene, but I honestly have no idea how he could have done it successfully without somehow repeating what Carpenter did in the original (which would've seemed unusual since the focus has been on Michael the whole time). That's one part of the movie that it's best not to think too much about.

Thorni52
11-02-2012, 02:22 PM
I'd actually go with the rape scene. Still, I've never had a preference with this film for the D-Cut, or the T-cut. You can replace certain scenes in substitute for others and I still think your basically looking at the same film. RZH2's DC improved it a great amount I thought.

Annie Brackett
11-02-2012, 04:35 PM
I'd actually go with the rape scene. Still, I've never had a preference with this film for the D-Cut, or the T-cut. You can replace certain scenes in substitute for others and I still think your basically looking at the same film. RZH2's DC improved it a great amount I thought.

Definitely, a DC for RZH2 really had a better purpose, but the DC of RZH1 didn't really add much improvement to the original I think. If anything it made it worse for me.

EvilOnTwoLegs
11-03-2012, 05:11 AM
I prefer the T-Cut of RZH if only because it omits the "150 miles" line. Zombie made it clear that his Michael Myers didn't have driving lessons, hence he walks everywhere. Sorry, but there's no fucking way the big bastard walked more than 150 miles overnight. haha Just another instance where cribbing a line from Carpenter's script was a bad, bad call.

blacksymbiote
11-03-2012, 10:07 PM
T-cut for me as well. The director's cut escape made Michael's escape seem random like it's only a coincidence that he escaped on Halloween.
The T cut showed us he had the strength to get out if he wanted but didn't until Halloween.

The Saw
11-03-2012, 10:08 PM
I prefer the T-Cut of RZH if only because it omits the "150 miles" line. Zombie made it clear that his Michael Myers didn't have driving lessons, hence he walks everywhere. Sorry, but there's no fucking way the big bastard walked more than 150 miles overnight. haha Just another instance where cribbing a line from Carpenter's script was a bad, bad call.

And the rape thing. That too.

EvilOnTwoLegs
11-04-2012, 03:44 AM
And the rape thing. That too.

The rape-escape I can take or leave. It's the mind-blowing ridiculousness of implying that Michael Myers could travel more than 150 miles overnight on foot that just makes me say, "Yeah, fuck you, movie." haha Seriously, that line has no business being in the film.

MyersCult81
11-05-2012, 04:36 PM
Whichever one showed Michael beating the holy crap out of the guards.

Robgoblin
11-05-2012, 06:37 PM
I love the hospital breakout because of the carnage Michael dishes out. The rape scene just rubs me the wrong way. Didn't care for it.

Keru
11-09-2012, 04:24 PM
I own the D-Cut, but I actually prefer the T-cut simply because I enjoy watching the actors playing the guards more than I do the orderlies in the D-Cut.

80sJEM
12-06-2012, 07:29 PM
Iíve only SEEN the theatrical version on TV, and his violent breaking away from the guards has a very realistic vibe for someone of his size who bides his time and energy until he needs it, though I sure love the ghostly vision of the patients wandering around in the original. I donít need to rent the Directorís Cut for the rape escape.

Michael Voorhees
01-22-2013, 12:18 AM
To this day I'm kinda pissed we don't have the T-Cut version of the escape in the Director's Cut. It's so much better. Plus, it has Bill Moseley, Tom Towles, & Leslie Easterbrook all in one.

Annie Brackett
03-15-2013, 08:18 PM
I own the DC, and whenever I watch it, I always turn down the volume and wait for the rape scene to be over. I still can't stand it.

Stebob1984
10-12-2013, 02:06 PM
The Theatrical version by a mile, it's just really fucking cool to be honest, I remember seeing it on the trailers then when I finally saw the film on DVD it was the uncut version, I was like where the hell is that cool escape scene?


The Uncut version is just disgusting, I hate rape scenes in anything and this as distasteful.

Mortimur Grimm
10-13-2013, 11:40 PM
God, I don't know. The theatrical version feels really out of place. Why are they transferring him? What movie is this from? Etc. In that regard, the rape feels more organic with the rest of the film. But it's still completely unnecessary.

To me, they are both really stupid. The "Super-Michael" in the theatrical version was corny and unrealistic in a film that tries to be realistic. I agree that the rape scene matches the rest of the film. It's a white trash Elysium. It matches perfectly. Again, an unrealistic event in a film that tries to be realistic.

Stebob1984
10-14-2013, 10:40 AM
To me, they are both really stupid. The "Super-Michael" in the theatrical version was corny and unrealistic in a film that tries to be realistic. I agree that the rape scene matches the rest of the film. It's a white trash Elysium. It matches perfectly. Again, an unrealistic event in a film that tries to be realistic.

I agree neither really paired but I thought the theatrical escape was at least cool, the DC escape was simply to shock which is what I don't like about Zombie in the first place.

A Dumb Question
10-14-2013, 12:52 PM
I feel that the movie would work better if neither scene was used. Just have Danny Trejo show up and find the mess. Leave the details to the imagination. (Oh, and let Trejo die of drowning. My goodness, Rob drags out death scenes too long.)

Stebob1984
10-14-2013, 12:59 PM
I feel that the movie would work better if neither scene was used. Just have Danny Trejo show up and find the mess. Leave the details to the imagination. (Oh, and let Trejo die of drowning. My goodness, Rob drags out death scenes too long.)

And there's one of the many reasons Halloween is the greatest horror film of all-tine, the sequels, remakes, influences, knock offs etc didn't leave anything to the imagination like the original Halloween did and that was one of the reasons it was so effective.