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Franchise
09-02-2007, 10:08 PM
Here's a webpage to start with to learn the differences between what you saw in the theaters and what's different about it in the workprint.

http://horror-movie-a-day.blogspot.com/1978/10/secret-post.html

For those too lazy to go there or if the link goes dead....



These are the differences between the workprint and theatrical cuts of Rob Zombie's Halloween.
Enjoy!

SCENES IN WORKPRINT NOT IN THEATRICAL VERSION:

1. During the breakfast scene, there’s additional dialogue between Judith and Deborah concerning eggs. Judith alludes to Deborah having an abortion.
2. The workprint has an opening credits sequence. It plays over the scene of Michael running from the school, Loomis’ introduction, and the bully walking through the woods. These scenes are all longer as a result, most significantly more dialogue between Loomis and Deborah, presented in voice over as Michael runs.
3. There’s an additional shot when Deborah confronts Michael outside the house after the murders.
4. The montage of Loomis and Michael getting to know each other has more dialogue/scene snippets
5. In the workprint, there is an additional scene of young Michael with Deborah at the institution, where he expresses his need to “get out of here”. When he learns he cannot leave, he says “Then I have nothing left to say.”
6. When the nurse looks at the photo of Michael and “Boo”, there is an additional line where she alludes to Michael being ugly. This provides more of a motive for her killing than is present in the theatrical version.
7. The “Fifteen Years Later” scene begins with a newscast about Michael’s possible transfer.
8. Following this newscast begins one of the biggest changes: Udo Kier’s character. In the theatrical he is only in ONE scene, but here he has quite a few as the head of Smith’s Grove. He is joined by Clint Howard and Tom Towles as other hospital higherups. They disagree with Loomis’ instructions for Michael’s care. This is followed by the scene where Loomis tells Michael he can no longer be his doctor.
9. The scene of Ishmael Cruz and the new orderly in Michael’s room is a bit longer.
10. An additional shot of Loomis leaving Smith’s Grove, looking back with a look on his face showing that he is clearly conflicted about his decision to quit on Michael.
11. Additional shots of Michael watching Joe Grizzly.
12. The scene where we meet Laurie and the Strodes is lengthened, there is more talk about the “pervert” hardware store owner.
13. After Loomis speaks at the lecture, there is a scene of him walking with a colleague, asking how he thought he did in the speech.
14. When Laurie and Lynda leave the school, Lynda harasses another female student for some reason, pouring a drink on her head (this is one of the few changes that were for the better, as it makes Lynda even more annoying than she already is)
15. Additional sex talk between the three girls as they walk home
16. When they see Michael, there are additional shots of him standing across the street (in the theatrical we only see his blurry shape)
17. A scene of Laurie walking to her house where her mother is putting up decorations outside. Michael is seen following her in the background.
18. A scene showing Michael in the graveyard, finding the tombstone and then removing it.
19. After Laurie leaves to baby-sit, we hear Michael breathing as her parents chat. When the mother goes inside, Michael approaches. The father sees him and assumes he is a trick or treater.
20. A scene showing Laurie watching horror movies with the kids. Laurie tells Lindsay it’s time for her to go.
21. The chase from the Wallace’s to the Doyle’s is a bit longer
22. The pool scene is a bit longer
23. A scene of Loomis and Laurie walking to the car is longer, and it really resonates that Loomis is feeling guilty, a moment that is truncated in the theatrical.

SCENES IN THE THEATRICAL THAT ARE NOT IN THE WORKPRINT

1. A scene of Loomis explaining the color spectrum to Michael
2. The death of Ishmael Cruz.
3. A scene of Brackett pulling up alongside the girls as they walk home. Brackett offers a ride, which only Annie accepts.
4. The graveyard scene with Sid Haig.
5. A scene where Lynda calls Laurie right before Bob’s death.
6. A quick bit where the Strodes express confusion over what Annie means by saying her dad is “same as always”
7. Loomis buys a gun
8. A shot of Bob backing his van into the driveway at the Myers house. Also, this scene occurs much earlier in the theatrical version than it does in the workprint.
9. A scene where Brackett explains how he knows who Laurie Strode’s real family is (a much needed addition as it is never explained in the workprint how she came to be with that family or how Loomis would know where to find her).
10. Loomis running up to the house and finding the kids is not in the workprint.

SCENES THAT ARE DIFFERENT ENTIRELY

1. Michael listens to Monster Mash in the first scene instead of classic rock (note – a lot of the music is different, more usages of the original music, but that is to be expected from a workprint – this was the only one I will point out)
2. The biggest one that almost everyone knows about, when Michael escapes. In the workprint, an orderly and his friend harass and then rape a female inmate in Michael’s room. Michael ignores them until they begin playing with his masks (this pays off the line about him not liking it when people touch his things). He kills them both, gets their keys, and escapes. In the theatrical, he is being moved for some reason and suddenly kills the four guards, including Tom Towles (who plays a different character in the workprint), as well as Bill Moseley, and Leslie Easterbrook, neither of whom appear in the workprint).
3. The scene where Loomis is told that Michael escapes is entirely different, and features more Udo Kier.
4. The scene where Loomis leaves for Haddonfield after arguing with Udo Kier and Clint Howard is completely different.
5. The scene where Loomis meets Brackett takes place in a different location (a diner in the theatrical, and what appears to be the graveyard in the workprint), and the dialogue is different.
6. Mrs. Strode is brutally killed; in the workprint it is just sort of suggested.
7. Bob’s death is completely different. In the workprint, he is killed in his van when he goes out to get beer. In the theatrical, he is killed in the exact same way he was killed in the 1978 film.
8. The ending is completely different from the moment Michael pulls Laurie out of the car. In the workprint, Loomis talks to Michael for a while longer than he does in the theatrical version. Then the cops show up, guns drawn. Loomis convinces them all to stand down while he continues to try to calm Michael. He succeeds, and Michael lets Laurie go. As she runs to Loomis, the cops (including Brackett) open fire, shooting him dozens of times. Loomis screams for them to stop but it’s too late. Michael appears dead. The film ends on a very nice shot of Loomis standing over Michael’s body, clearly realizing how he failed his patient, as we hear the audio recording of their very first meeting at Smith’s Grove. In the theatrical, Michael kills Loomis, then spends about 10 minutes smashing his house trying to find Laurie. He finally does, and then rushes her. They go out the window, then Laurie shoots him, screams, and the film ends.

Sirand
09-03-2007, 12:00 AM
A review too:
http://www.dreadcentral.com/index.php?name=Reviews&req=showcontent&id=1610

I fully agree with it too.

While you can't polish a turd, there were at least a few nice moments that made it a more cohesive film.

Villain612
09-03-2007, 12:20 AM
Glad the rape scene was taken out.

Some of the scenes in the WP should've been in the final version. I love the extended scene with young Michael and Loomis outside- "I've gotta get out of here".

Overall, after watching both, the theatrical cut is definitely better.

I actually like both endings though.

MyersFan75
09-03-2007, 12:23 AM
There were several small things I liked in the workprint that I think could have been added to the theatrical release that would have just been small cherries dabbed on top but eh, whatever.

EvilOnTwoLegs
09-03-2007, 12:27 AM
I think the best version would be a hybrid of both cuts...with possibly some other deleted material included...then heavily re-edit the last half, so that it doesn't feel so jumpy. That's my take on it.

But damn, am I glad the rape scene came out of the theatrical cut. It's not the content that bugged me, really...it was the fact that it made no fucking sense whatsoever. It was just an excuse to get Myers out...and it stretched credibility to the breaking point.

madmax4000
09-03-2007, 12:29 AM
NOOOICE

Thurisaz
09-03-2007, 12:34 AM
The only scene I missed was the aforementioned scene with Loomis and Michael at Smith's Grove. The better differences to me were the Strode's deaths, the reworking of the Bob/Lynda scene, and of course the escape scene. I also felt the ending in the workprint was really flat. No so much bad, but just totally flat.

EvilOnTwoLegs
09-03-2007, 01:13 AM
The only scene I missed was the aforementioned scene with Loomis and Michael at Smith's Grove. The better differences to me were the Strode's deaths, the reworking of the Bob/Lynda scene, and of course the escape scene. I also felt the ending in the workprint was really flat. No so much bad, but just totally flat.
I don't know how I feel about changing Bob's death...I mean, when you already have a different death scene, why go with a carbon copy of his death from H1? It seemed like Zombie trying to stick in yet another H1 homage, when I already felt like he was doing too much of that. And I also missed some of the Smith's Grove stuff. What's weird is that in the theatrical cut, they omitted Loomis's question about Michael's hair, but left Michael's answer in...that threw me.

I also really loved the cemetery scene in the workprint...it was one of the most beautifully shot sequences in the entire film. And again, Zombie omits it in favor of an H1 throwback. I don't know. The scene in the theatrical cut maybe fits in better with the surrounding scenes...but the editing between scenes is so seemingly aimless by that point in the film that it scarcely seems to matter. haha

Dr_Loomis02
09-03-2007, 01:30 AM
The theatrical ending I think sounds much better. And we don't know for certain that Loomis died in the theatrical either.

ColadaSplash
09-03-2007, 01:33 AM
I think the best version would be a hybrid of both cuts...with possibly some other deleted material included...then heavily re-edit the last half, so that it doesn't feel so jumpy. That's my take on it.

But damn, am I glad the rape scene came out of the theatrical cut. It's not the content that bugged me, really...it was the fact that it made no fucking sense whatsoever. It was just an excuse to get Myers out...and it stretched credibility to the breaking point.

I'm stealing some of your ideas and Deadpool's ideas, but I feel the same way. Here's what I think...

--------------------------

Rob shot a lot of footage, so it's probably possible to make the 2nd half feel like its own movie -- or close to it. DVD idea! Rob, if you're reading, take that into consideration. And yes... Save the rape for the deleted scenes; don't insert it back into the film.

This project was too crammed, and Rob just wasn't going to get the running time approved that was needed to establish what is basically two seperate films -- or basically an epic. Rob should have done two seperate films, or picked one or the other.

I agree: The 2nd half, especially, needs to be re-edited in a DVD "Director's Cut," "Extended," or similar release so it feels more like a film. The 2nd half is the most troubled, but could be somewhat salvaged considering everything Rob shot. There is a movie in there somewhere, and the scenes are shot... Time to piece it together, and it could lead to, at least, a semi-decent slasher in its own right.

I don't care if this movie is 2 1/2 hours long if it helps it feel more cohesive and improves its flow. If it makes the movie better, in anyway (Alien 3, for example), I'm all for it.

Let's face facts: there was studio tinkering with this film. Rob will likely never admit this, but I believe it. No question about it... It's also why I believe we may "possibly" see a "Director's Cut" in the future. I also agree that the best film is definately a blend of the theatrical and workprint cuts -- intertwined with other important footage he shot that we haven't seen.

Basically, I agree with "EvilOnTwoLegs" 100%. At least we're in the DVD age where this has been done already (Alien series, Lord of the Rings, etc). We might actually see something come out of it, so there's hope.

--------------------------

Some examples (not everything, but what came to mind):

Theatrical -- worked better: Reworking Bob and Linda's scene (but Bob's death in the van should have been kept because it was quite different from the original film); Mrs. Strode's death; the additional street scenes (Brackett giving Annie a ride; Laurie walking alone), the breakout (kind of dumb and too wrestler with the breaking chains, but still much better than the rape); Trejo's addition; adoption explanation; and some other things.

Workprint -- worked better: Monster Mash opening (at least it's a Halloween song); THE OPENING CREDITS (Very nicely done, and inventive. Put them back); Myers following Laurie home from school, and hiding behind the trees (important scene explaining how he knew where she lived); the cool looking cemetary shot*; the intact street chase (but with the music from the theatrical cut); the extra shots of Michael looking at Laurie and ascending the staircase after breaking in... These scenes should be there. They were some of Rob's best shots in this troubled film.

*How could Myers lift that gravestone? You know what... I'm willing to suspend believability due to that scene (one that involved sundown which is completely missing from the theatrical cut) was nicely shot. :nodsmile: It's not like Myers was 100% human in this film anyway. Some of you will argue with that, but I'm going with a no... Sorry. It was a nice shot, and I want it back! :yar:

dbzguy
09-03-2007, 01:38 AM
The theatrical ending I think sounds much better. And we don't know for certain that Loomis died in the theatrical either.



Dude.... thats what Im sayin Bro... and Im not totally convinced that MM is dead ethier....

101ant101
09-03-2007, 02:10 AM
the workprint was alright. its just the rape scene

punkrocklove
09-03-2007, 02:29 AM
Im so so glad the rape scenes out.

That was low, really really low.

101ant101
09-03-2007, 02:32 AM
Im so so glad the rape scenes out.

That was low, really really low.

agree. it does work cos its just another way to get him out. but, im sure if he kept that hre would of got alot more people moaning.

punkrocklove
09-03-2007, 02:36 AM
Urgh, it was sick though.
Far too graphical. If they'd shown it in the same way they showed Mrs Myer's death, it wouldnt be too bad.

101ant101
09-03-2007, 02:41 AM
Urgh, it was sick though.
Far too graphical. If they'd shown it in the same way they showed Mrs Myer's death, it wouldnt be too bad.


lol well put it this way what would you rather watch than that scene porn? or robs rape scene

JamieLloydFan
09-03-2007, 03:04 AM
Personally I have only seen the workprint, Due to my location and will have to wait a while before I can see the theatrical Version. I enjoyed the workprint. I tried my hardest not to compare between JC's while viewing. The first act was fairly good, (at least this was original) 2nd act very good although it did feel rushed. I liked the scenes with Micheal Following the girls from School then following laurie to the strode house. Good homage to the original. The rape scene was not needed. I would have prefered to have seen an escape similar to the original. Although Not offended maybe to much bad language was used. Performances were quite good. Michael Myers was scary again at last. Danielle harris had a good turn as Annie, Scout was good. A bit disapointed in Mcdowells performance. I wanted more of Loomis. Although he did have big shoes to fill and maybe I was comparing him to much to Donald Pleasence. I cant wait to see the theatrical version in the cinema hen it is released in the UK. The workPrint ending was fine for me.

punkrocklove
09-03-2007, 03:17 AM
Okay, my two cent's on the Work Print are this.

As the person above said, it was really difficult not to compare it to the original, but then, it was entirely it's own movie. It honestly didn't feel to me like a remake, but an entirely new movie.

I loved the interaction between Michael and Loomis, but didn't think much of McDowals(spelling?) acting at all. Maybe it was his accent that didn't fit? I'm not sure.

My favourite section of the movie was the beginning. The swearing wasn't needed but..I suppose in a sense Zombie had to show what a messed up family Michael was coming from.

I prefered the way Mrs Myers found out about Michaels killing to the original. It was a lot more emotional.
As was her death.

Daeg's perfomance was fantastic. Outstanding even.
He managed to come across as such an innocent boy in the hospital, when he's talking about what he remembers about Halloween.

The rape scene was sick, Ive nothing more to say about that.

I don't understand how people are saying Danielles topless scene is at all sexy. I'm not bashing her, because, I'm sure, under the right circumstances, she has a beautiful top half but..how on earth can you find a half dead, half naked woman sexy?
Her acting was lovely though, as was Scouts.
Which was one of the main things I was worried about. I really didn't see her as Laurie so I was a bit sceptical but she's proved herself.

I didn't like the ending.

Umm yeah, I suppose I'll wait for the theatrical version now.

101ant101
09-03-2007, 03:17 AM
same here i liked the workprint

ragethorn
09-03-2007, 03:20 AM
I've watched the workprint 3 times so far and here's a few things i've noticed.

The rape scene is ridiculous. Bobs death sucks. The ending wasn't too good because Michael drops his knife and gives Laurie back to Loomis.

Overall, the theatrical version is better. I just wished the escape scene was better in both versions.

I did notice that the chase scene from one house to the next was a bit longer in the work print.

And like mentioned before, the garden scene in the work print is absolutely kick ass. Should have kept that in.

Myers Insurance
09-03-2007, 04:37 AM
I prefered the workprint, but I think that there are scenes that need to be put back in. This Halloween should've been like 2 and a half or three hours long.

H-Field Hero
09-03-2007, 05:27 AM
The only scene I missed was the aforementioned scene with Loomis and Michael at Smith's Grove. The better differences to me were the Strode's deaths, the reworking of the Bob/Lynda scene, and of course the escape scene. I also felt the ending in the workprint was really flat. No so much bad, but just totally flat.The theatrical ending certainly had more pop to it, but I like the lead up better in the workprint.

101ant101
09-03-2007, 06:41 AM
I prefered the workprint, but I think that there are scenes that need to be put back in. This Halloween should've been like 2 and a half or three hours long.

i agree with you on 2 hours then hopefully we would of had more of the girls. but no way 3 hours that would bore people.

D Adams
09-03-2007, 06:47 AM
I think the best version would be a hybrid of both cuts...with possibly some other deleted material included...then heavily re-edit the last half, so that it doesn't feel so jumpy. That's my take on it.

But damn, am I glad the rape scene came out of the theatrical cut. It's not the content that bugged me, really...it was the fact that it made no fucking sense whatsoever. It was just an excuse to get Myers out...and it stretched credibility to the breaking point.

I'm with you 100%, and also believe the best version would have been a blend of both....... The WP had some extended stalking scenes and a few other parts I would have liked to see in the final release....

D Adams
09-03-2007, 06:49 AM
Also, I think the first line is wrong about the dialogue referring to Deb having an abortion. In the workprint, Judith doesn't want to eat the eggs and calls the eggs "chicken abortions" ...or something similar. She wasn't talking about Deb ...lol :p

WhiteZombie
09-03-2007, 06:52 AM
I posted this a few days ago somwhere else, but I'll put it here. And im not bashing the theatrical at all, I loved it.

From the second I started, I was already pissed. The workprint is SO much more intact, and steady. There entire scenes taken out of the theatrical. Cool little dialoge snips to entire Loomis/Asylum staff scenes to more Young Mickey and Loomis. The entire first half seemed more whole, and the escape scene was better, maybe not the rape, but it was more Myers.. No beating the fuck out of 4 guys. Just a nice little escape. There is also ALOT more little scenes with big Mike that just SHOULD have been in there, no matter how small. Ex: Walking around the house more, stealing the gravestone, watching the Strode house, and just more general Myers. Now one thing that was better about the thatrical cut was Bobs death, the hanging, like the classic original. Another is possibly the ending. Somthing about the theatricals ending I really liked, although the workprint ending was really amazing too. I love both, but I can DEFINETLY see the workprint getting a hell of alot more respect, had it of been released. Now question, why WAS so much cut?

Thurisaz
09-03-2007, 06:53 AM
Also, I think the first line is wrong about the dialogue referring to Deb having an abortion. In the workprint, Judith doesn't want to eat the eggs and calls the eggs "chicken abortions" ...or something similar. She wasn't talking about Deb ...lol :p

She made a joke about her not knowing what an abortion was. Which still makes the first line wrong though.

D Adams
09-03-2007, 06:59 AM
She made a joke about her not knowing what an abortion was. Which still makes the first line wrong though.

On top of the comment about eggs being chicken abortions ... I'll rewatch and confirm on that later...

Thurisaz
09-03-2007, 07:01 AM
Do not ask for the workprint on this board.

tlc51369
09-03-2007, 07:02 AM
Sorry! I didn't realize that I could not ask since this thread is now open.

njdevs03champs
09-03-2007, 07:06 AM
I guess it would be cool to compare both of them like with H:6.

D Adams
09-03-2007, 07:07 AM
I posted this a few days ago somwhere else, but I'll put it here. And im not bashing the theatrical at all, I loved it.

From the second I started, I was already pissed. The workprint is SO much more intact, and steady. There entire scenes taken out of the theatrical. Cool little dialoge snips to entire Loomis/Asylum staff scenes to more Young Mickey and Loomis. The entire first half seemed more whole, and the escape scene was better, maybe not the rape, but it was more Myers.. No beating the fuck out of 4 guys. Just a nice little escape. There is also ALOT more little scenes with big Mike that just SHOULD have been in there, no matter how small. Ex: Walking around the house more, stealing the gravestone, watching the Strode house, and just more general Myers. Now one thing that was better about the thatrical cut was Bobs death, the hanging, like the classic original. Another is possibly the ending. Somthing about the theatricals ending I really liked, although the workprint ending was really amazing too. I love both, but I can DEFINETLY see the workprint getting a hell of alot more respect, had it of been released. Now question, why WAS so much cut?

As someone else mentioned , there were some subtle dialogue lines that were cut that should have been left .... The nurse's comment with regard to Michael being ugly , Loomis asking about his hair, and Michael's own comment when his mom arrives home (after the killings) ... telling her "its over now" ..... as if he knew exactly what he had done (contrary to what you see at the asylum).

I also really miss the extended stalking scenes, especially the one where Michael watches Laurie interact with her mom for a good period of time ......... I definitely missed the across the street, LONG approach, to Mr. Strode, without breaking stride, then Mr. Strode's comment, and finally the blatant slashing of his throat on the porch before forcing him inside. In the theater, we just get the abrubt push inside the house ...... That walk/approach was a huge build up in what was going to happen ...

Kinick
09-03-2007, 07:10 AM
After reading the changes made, i no doubt will agree that a combination of both versions would make a more complete and cohesive movie.

I can't believe they took out the scene of Michael following Laurie home... i also liked Monster Mash at the beginning, gave a nice Halloweeny feel. Glad the scenes of Loomis learning Michael has escaped are different. I'm also looking forward the the extended ending more.

The graveyard shot was creepy, but it didn't work. I would've liked to see the full scene as we were originally intended to in place of something else, rather than Zombie trying to fit evrything in. The workprint, to me, felt incomplete. As if we were just given snippets of full scenes and asked to lump them together to create a complete movie.

D Adams
09-03-2007, 07:14 AM
Btw, the blog version comparison doesn't talk about the approach/sequence leading to Mr. Strode's death .......

Thurisaz
09-03-2007, 07:17 AM
Btw, the blog version comparison doesn't talk about the approach/sequence leading to Mr. Strode's death .......

Yes it does.


SCENES IN WORKPRINT NOT IN THEATRICAL VERSION:

19. After Laurie leaves to baby-sit, we hear Michael breathing as her parents chat. When the mother goes inside, Michael approaches. The father sees him and assumes he is a trick or treater.

D Adams
09-03-2007, 07:17 AM
After reading the changes made, i no doubt will agree that a combination of both versions would make a more complete and cohesive movie.

I can't believe they took out the scene of Michael following Laurie home... i also liked Monster Mash at the beginning, gave a nice Halloweeny feel. Glad the scenes of Loomis learning Michael has escaped are different. I'm also looking forward the the extended ending more.

The graveyard shot was creepy, but it didn't work. I would've liked to see the full scene as we were originally intended to in place of something else, rather than Zombie trying to fit evrything in. The workprint, to me, felt incomplete. As if we were just given snippets of full scenes and asked to lump them together to create a complete movie.

I think the Workprint is fully intact from beginning to end -- just has a couple of "different" scenes than the theatrical release........ It also has *added* (or more) material that isn't in the final version , but it is a complete film and could stand alone as an alternative version if it needed to....

Kinick
09-03-2007, 07:19 AM
Btw, the blog version comparison doesn't talk about the approach/sequence leading to Mr. Strode's death .......

Don't tell me this is different, Michael standing there breathing and walking up...brilliant. What's the deal with this in the thearical?

D Adams
09-03-2007, 07:19 AM
Yes it does.

Ok, I guess I missed that snippet and was hoping that it would clarify that Mr. Strode was killed outside on the porch , then pushed inside. In the theatrical version, we just get that abrupt push inside, nothing else with Mr. Strode....

Thurisaz
09-03-2007, 07:22 AM
Ok, I guess I missed that snippet and was hoping that it would clarify that Mr. Strode was killed outside on the porch , then pushed inside. In the theatrical version, we just get that abrupt push inside, nothing else with Mr. Strode....

I found that scene to be much better in the theatrical version with Michael slashing his forehead out of nowhere.

D Adams
09-03-2007, 07:23 AM
Don't tell me this is different, Michael standing there breathing and walking up...brilliant. What's the deal with this in the thearical?

It is 100% EDITED OUT ... We only see a very abrupt Michael pushing Mr. Strode inside... no approach at all & no throat slash. I hated the theatrical scene after seeing the WP which was a HUGE suspense build up in that stalking + approach...

totempoll
09-03-2007, 07:23 AM
Although I prefer the theatrical over the workprint, there were a few things i liked more in the workprint. I wish they left the extended chase scene of Laurie and the scene in the pool. I also liked the scene with Loomis and Myers outside. I thought that death of Mason Strode was better in the workprint because you see Michael walk up to him and just slash him. This makes the scene a little bit more intense. I wish they left in the "Monster Mash" beggining and Michael following Laurie home.

Terrortino
09-03-2007, 07:24 AM
Hmm I wonder if the workprint version of this Halloween will become the next "P-cut for Halloween 6" and develope its own little cult following :)

Thurisaz
09-03-2007, 07:24 AM
It is 100% EDITED OUT ... We only see a very abrupt Michael pushing Mr. Strode inside... no approach at all & no throat slash. I hated the theatrical scene after seeing the WP which was a HUGE suspense build up in that stalking + approach...

It wasn't a throat slash, it was across the forehead. And yes that's in the theatrical version.

D Adams
09-03-2007, 07:25 AM
I found that scene to be much better in the theatrical version with Michael slashing his forehead out of nowhere.

You don't really see that in the theatrical version .... It is so RUSHED that all you really get to see is Michael forcing Mr.Strode inside.........People jumped and screamed because it was "so sudden" ...

Thurisaz
09-03-2007, 07:27 AM
No, you definitely see it. I noticed it both times I've seen the film.

D Adams
09-03-2007, 07:28 AM
It wasn't a throat slash, it was across the forehead. And yes that's in the theatrical version.

I"m gonna re-watch the WP .... I believe it was a throat slash, but if I am wrong, I stand corrected. The theatrical version was far too RUSHED, and there was NO APPROACH (at all)...... In the WP, there was a long extended approach to the porch , with comments by Mr. Strode to Michael.

Are you going to say that's in the theatrical version too? When I know damn well it isn't?

Thurisaz
09-03-2007, 07:29 AM
I"m gonna re-watch the WP .... I believe it was a throat slash, but if I am wrong, I stand corrected. The theatrical version was far too RUSHED, and there was NO APPROACH (at all)...... In the WP, there was a long extended approach to the porch , with comments by Mr. Strode to Michael.

Are you going to say that's in the theatrical version too? When I know damn well it isn't?

All you see in the theatrical version is the forehead slash. In the workprint you see Mason talking to Michael first as he walks up to the porch.

D Adams
09-03-2007, 07:32 AM
All you see in the theatrical version is the forehead slash. In the workprint you see Mason talking to Michael first as he walks up to the porch.

You also see the long approach from across the street and Michael watching all the talk/banter before he approaches.

I also loved the camera angle change from behind Michael to the front of Michael as he approaches the porch .... It is no "little" difference and definitely intended to build suspense and fear ...... It should have been LEFT in.

Now, I have to go check to see if it is a throat or forehead slash ... lol :p

Thurisaz
09-03-2007, 07:35 AM
Now, I have to go check to see if it is a throat or forehead slash ... lol :p

It's a forehead slash.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/dontmeanit/ohmbpics/47.jpg

Kinick
09-03-2007, 07:37 AM
I aksed this yesterday but didn't get answered. Can someone tell me if Nole Kluggs (and Kendall Jacks) still have a scene in the movie?

Turtle
09-03-2007, 07:40 AM
Hmm I wonder if the workprint version of this Halloween will become the next "P-cut for Halloween 6" and develope its own little cult following :)

I can see it being a similar thing, but I think more people have allready seen this workprint than even KNOW about the producers cut.

MyersFan75
09-03-2007, 07:42 AM
I think the best version would be a hybrid of both cuts...with possibly some other deleted material included...then heavily re-edit the last half, so that it doesn't feel so jumpy. That's my take on it.

But damn, am I glad the rape scene came out of the theatrical cut. It's not the content that bugged me, really...it was the fact that it made no fucking sense whatsoever. It was just an excuse to get Myers out...and it stretched credibility to the breaking point.

After viewing the workprint myself, I agree.

I actually thought the concept was a bit more realistic when I heard about it, and then saw the new escape where he butchers all the guards. (Doesn't seem that realistic).

But seeing it now, it's just really weird. It was a pain to watch. Agh.

Superman
09-03-2007, 07:46 AM
Wow.....very different. I hope it's made "avaliable" some day. That would be a nice addition to the collection. :nodsmile:

MyersFan75
09-03-2007, 07:48 AM
Wow.....very different. I hope it's made "avaliable" some day. That would be a nice addition to the collection. :nodsmile:


I'm sure we'll see DVD copies eventually. Maybe a re-edit of the final film with certain parts of the workprint. That'd be very cool.

Superman
09-03-2007, 07:54 AM
I'm sure we'll see DVD copies eventually. Maybe a re-edit of the final film with certain parts of the workprint. That'd be very cool.

You mean like dvd copies of the P-Cut?

MyersFan75
09-03-2007, 07:56 AM
You mean like dvd copies of the P-Cut?


Yes. :nodsmile:

Turtle
09-03-2007, 07:59 AM
I'm sure we'll see DVD copies eventually. Maybe a re-edit of the final film with certain parts of the workprint. That'd be very cool.

I think that would be the best thing, taking the theatrical, and "re-inserting" the best bits of the workprint, creating a frankenstein cut as it were. Hopefully, it would flesh-out the second half just a bit.

EvilOnTwoLegs
09-03-2007, 07:59 AM
Urgh, it was sick though.
Far too graphical. If they'd shown it in the same way they showed Mrs Myer's death, it wouldnt be too bad.
It would've been just as bad, as far as I'm concerned...cuz it would still be stupid. If it were graphic and reasonable within the plot, that would be better than subtle and ridiculous. The problem is, it's just a ridiculous scene, within the context of the film...whether it's graphic or not. Even reshot or re-edited, that scene would just be goofy.



Also, I think the first line is wrong about the dialogue referring to Deb having an abortion. In the workprint, Judith doesn't want to eat the eggs and calls the eggs "chicken abortions" ...or something similar. She wasn't talking about Deb ...lol :p
Well, she does say to Deborah, "You would know about abortions."



I'm with you 100%, and also believe the best version would have been a blend of both....... The WP had some extended stalking scenes and a few other parts I would have liked to see in the final release....
One thing I'm glad is out, though, are the shots of Michael standing in the middle of the road when Laurie spots him while walking with Annie and Lynda. They just looked kind of...funny. haha It was better the way they handled it in the theatrical...where you don't see Myers that well.
As someone else mentioned , there were some subtle dialogue lines that were cut that should have been left .... The nurse's comment with regard to Michael being ugly , Loomis asking about his hair, and Michael's own comment when his mom arrives home (after the killings) ... telling her "its over now" ..... as if he knew exactly what he had done (contrary to what you see at the asylum).

I also really miss the extended stalking scenes, especially the one where Michael watches Laurie interact with her mom for a good period of time ......... I definitely missed the across the street, LONG approach, to Mr. Strode, without breaking stride, then Mr. Strode's comment, and finally the blatant slashing of his throat on the porch before forcing him inside. In the theater, we just get the abrubt push inside the house ...... That walk/approach was a huge build up in what was going to happen ...
I'm actually glad the nurse's comment insinuating Michael's ugliness was gone in the theatrical cut. It changes the dynamic of the kill. In the workprint, it could be construed that he kills the nurse because he feels insulted. In the theatrical, I think it play more like he kills her because she comments on Laurie, and he wants Laurie all to himself. This goes a long way to answering questions people have, like "Why would he kill the Strodes?" If there's a motive for it, I'd say that would be it...because Laurie is his, not theirs.

I think Mason's death played better in the theatrical for me...but maybe it was because I'd already seen the workprint. I was expecting that, so when it played out differently, and Myers just came out of nowhere suddenly, it was more shocking because I had a preconceived notion of the scene.



No, you definitely see it. I noticed it both times I've seen the film.
Yeah, I've only seen it once so far, and I saw the face-slash.

nwiser
09-03-2007, 08:03 AM
I think the best version would be a hybrid of both cuts...with possibly some other deleted material included...then heavily re-edit the last half, so that it doesn't feel so jumpy. That's my take on it.


As I was reading the list of what's in the workprint, I was thinking the same thing. I was like...how could they cut "this" or "that" out...it would have really explained a lot, moved the plot along, or just made certain scenes make a bit more sense.

Is there any chance that RZ or whoever would go back and do something like this for the DVD release and call it "the directors cut"? I promise to buy copies for all my familly and give them out at Christmas if he would. haha j/k. :D


I also felt the ending in the workprint was really flat. No so much bad, but just totally flat.

Not sure what you mean by "flat"...but there are things I like about the workprint ending and things I dont. What I like is the fact that Loomis seems to be able to get through to Michael...to reach the miniscule amount of humanity left i him in order to release Laurie, which redeems Loomis to a point in my eyes.

What I dont like is the fact that Michael is essentially murdered by the cops after being "reached" by Loomis...it makes the ending seem much sadder to me. At the same time, and some may say I cant have it both ways, I like the "finality" of the workprint ending both because it supposedly makes the film a standalone movie, and because its what RZ had intended from the start as opposed to any potential pressure by the studios to leave an opening for a sequel.

Turtle
09-03-2007, 08:04 AM
One thing I'm glad is out, though, are the shots of Michael standing in the middle of the road when Laurie spots him while walking with Annie and Lynda. They just looked kind of...funny. haha It was better the way they handled it in the theatrical...where you don't see Myers that well.
I'm actually glad the nurse's comment insinuating Michael's ugliness was gone in the theatrical cut. It changes the dynamic of the kill. In the workprint, it could be construed that he kills the nurse because he feels insulted. In the theatrical, I think it play more like he kills her because she comments on Laurie, and he wants Laurie all to himself. This goes a long way to answering questions people have, like "Why would he kill the Strodes?" If there's a motive for it, I'd say that would be it...because Laurie is his, not theirs.



Michael killing those who insult him seemed to be his "motive" in the WP, the only two members of his household he doesn't kill being his loving mother, and baby sister, the insulting nurse, the other girls... which I liked until it came to killing Lauries adoptive parents, it didn't "fit" with the established reason fit... so I agree with you, making Laurie herself more the motivation, it solves that problem.

EvilOnTwoLegs
09-03-2007, 08:25 AM
Michael killing those who insult him seemed to be his "motive" in the WP, the only two members of his household he doesn't kill being his loving mother, and baby sister, the insulting nurse, the other girls... which I liked until it came to killing Lauries adoptive parents, it didn't "fit" with the established reason fit... so I agree with you, making Laurie herself more the motivation, it solves that problem.
I don't think Michael Myers should be a revenge-driven killer...look what that did to Hannibal Lecter. Forget Rob Zombie...what was Thomas Harris thinking? haha And he created Hannibal Lecter...which makes it worse in some way. Pity...he used to be such a brilliant writer.

D Adams
09-03-2007, 08:26 AM
It's a forehead slash.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/dontmeanit/ohmbpics/47.jpg

Dang!!! I stand corrected! ROFLMAO :D Where did you get that pic? LOL!!

Myers Insurance
09-03-2007, 08:29 AM
It's him killing people who insult him in the workprint. Judith's boyfriend called him a squirt, Judith always picked on him, Ronnie, the nurse, and then Annie and Lynda being the only girls who picked on him when Laurie saw him. Though that doesn't explain the Strode's death completely...

Myers Insurance
09-03-2007, 08:30 AM
Dang!!! I stand corrected! ROFLMAO :D Where did you get that pic? LOL!!

I believe it was a publicity photo. There was one of Mrs. Strode with bloodied hands and everything. It was probably from the reshoots though, since the workprint doesn't show her dieing.

Roswell
09-03-2007, 08:31 AM
I like the sound of the alternate ending. Of course, I'd have to actually SEE it before I could make a judgement on it.

D Adams
09-03-2007, 08:34 AM
It would've been just as bad, as far as I'm concerned...cuz it would still be stupid. If it were graphic and reasonable within the plot, that would be better than subtle and ridiculous. The problem is, it's just a ridiculous scene, within the context of the film...whether it's graphic or not. Even reshot or re-edited, that scene would just be goofy.



Well, she does say to Deborah, "You would know about abortions."



One thing I'm glad is out, though, are the shots of Michael standing in the middle of the road when Laurie spots him while walking with Annie and Lynda. They just looked kind of...funny. haha It was better the way they handled it in the theatrical...where you don't see Myers that well.
I'm actually glad the nurse's comment insinuating Michael's ugliness was gone in the theatrical cut. It changes the dynamic of the kill. In the workprint, it could be construed that he kills the nurse because he feels insulted. In the theatrical, I think it play more like he kills her because she comments on Laurie, and he wants Laurie all to himself. This goes a long way to answering questions people have, like "Why would he kill the Strodes?" If there's a motive for it, I'd say that would be it...because Laurie is his, not theirs.

I think Mason's death played better in the theatrical for me...but maybe it was because I'd already seen the workprint. I was expecting that, so when it played out differently, and Myers just came out of nowhere suddenly, it was more shocking because I had a preconceived notion of the scene.



Yeah, I've only seen it once so far, and I saw the face-slash.


Yes, Judith does add that line about her mom knowing about abortions after the chicken abortions comment ......true.

I still prefer the WP kiling of Mr. Strode ..... I wanted that build up ......

As for the nurse scene, the only reason I don't really mind the ugly comment being taken out is because it does show Michael doesn't really need a reason to kill ..evil never does. In truth, there was no need to kill Laurie's friends ....but he does. This is true to the 1978 original as well.

D Adams
09-03-2007, 08:40 AM
I like the sound of the alternate ending. Of course, I'd have to actually SEE it before I could make a judgement on it.

The theatrical ending was too long and drawn out ..especially the pursuit back through the house of laurie .... that was a waste of precious film time which could have been used for other wp cuts ..... I much prefer the short sweet WP ending ....

EvilOnTwoLegs
09-03-2007, 08:41 AM
I believe it was a publicity photo. There was one of Mrs. Strode with bloodied hands and everything. It was probably from the reshoots though, since the workprint doesn't show her dieing.
I'm pretty sure that whole scene was shot at the same time...it was just edited down more in the workprint.



As for the nurse scene, the only reason I don't really mind the ugly comment being taken out is because it does show Michael doesn't really need a reason to kill ..evil never does. In truth, there was no need to kill Laurie's friends ....but he does. This is true to the 1978 original as well.
Within the context of this film, I think it could be argued that Myers kills Laurie's friends (and the Strodes) because Laurie "belongs" to him...I think that taking out the nurse's second line also brings this implication into play in the insititution. She says Laurie is a cute baby, then Michael kills her.

Myers Insurance
09-03-2007, 08:42 AM
That could be true as for Laurie belonging to him, but I think the whole "kill people who insult him" aspect worked better.

D Adams
09-03-2007, 08:46 AM
I'm pretty sure that whole scene was shot at the same time...it was just edited down more in the workprint.



Within the context of this film, I think it could be argued that Myers kills Laurie's friends (and the Strodes) because Laurie "belongs" to him...I think that taking out the nurse's second line also brings this implication into play in the insititution. She says Laurie is a cute baby, then Michael kills her.

if you need a reason for Michael's killings .... I don't accept that though.... In the original 78', he definitely wants to *kill* Laurie , but yet I don't get that feel in the remake. It is more like he wants her to know who he is and accept him........

EvilOnTwoLegs
09-03-2007, 08:48 AM
That could be true as for Laurie belonging to him, but I think the whole "kill people who insult him" aspect worked better.
I think that makes him too much of a sympathetic anti-hero...like they did with Lecter in Hannibal Rising. Which was godawful.

D Adams
09-03-2007, 08:50 AM
That could be true as for Laurie belonging to him, but I think the whole "kill people who insult him" aspect worked better.

That doesn't work either since the Strodes did not insult or ever have any interaction with Michael.......

I prefer the 1978 feel of Michael killing because he is pure evil ...... However, not all innocent bystanders are killed ....even throughout several of the sequels.

Myers Insurance
09-03-2007, 08:54 AM
The Strode's would be the only time where that would conflict. However, I know there's a part where the dad tells Laurie about crazy people on Halloween. If that's in the workprint, that could explain it. Maybe Michael overheard it.

D Adams
09-03-2007, 08:58 AM
Hey, did anyone notice that Laurie asks Michael to let her go in the WP? It was then that he releases her to Loomis. I just noticed that she did say, "Michael , let me go" .... or "Michael, please let me go" ...

D Adams
09-03-2007, 08:59 AM
The Strode's would be the only time where that would conflict. However, I know there's a part where the dad tells Laurie about crazy people on Halloween. If that's in the workprint, that could explain it. Maybe Michael overheard it.

Not good enough ... and that is assuming he would take Mr. Strodes very very general comment "personally", lol ...

Myers Insurance
09-03-2007, 09:01 AM
He would've taken the "squirt" comment seriously too.


I think that makes him too much of a sympathetic anti-hero...like they did with Lecter in Hannibal Rising. Which was godawful.

Same with The Devil's Rejects, and it worked well in that movie.

Pug-a-Licious
09-03-2007, 09:01 AM
I'm glad they cut out most of the parts with Lynda being such a bitch for absolutely NO reason to the other kids (other than she was in a bad mood) and pouring their drink on them...pointless and it really made me dislike her.

Myers Insurance
09-03-2007, 09:03 AM
It was pretty realistic. If cheerleading was the most important thing in her life, and she was mad she got cut, if she saw two girls laughing and assumed it was at her, she would've been pissed at them.

EvilOnTwoLegs
09-03-2007, 09:04 AM
Same with The Devil's Rejects, and it worked well in that movie.
The Fireflies kill because people wrong them? Did I miss something?

Myers Insurance
09-03-2007, 09:05 AM
I meant as for making us care for the killers and not the non-killers. I think in the workprint, there are points where you care for Michael.

Pug-a-Licious
09-03-2007, 09:06 AM
It was pretty realistic. If cheerleading was the most important thing in her life, and she was mad she got cut, if she saw two girls laughing and assumed it was at her, she would've been pissed at them.

True, but they took it too far, IMHO. I was just really glad they didn't include it.

EvilOnTwoLegs
09-03-2007, 09:07 AM
I meant as for making us care for the killers and not the non-killers. I think in the workprint, there are points where you care for Michael.
I think it's important that it turns around from there in the theatrical cut...notably with the killing of Ismael. I want Myers to be a villain...not an anti-hero.

Myers Insurance
09-03-2007, 09:07 AM
I thought it was funny and gave us development on Lynda to sure she doesn't like to be messed with.

Man In Black
09-03-2007, 09:09 AM
The things I didn't like about the workprint - I'm sure some are still in the final cut, but my location dictates I am yet to see it:

• When the girls spot Michael staring at them on the walk home and he is just standing in the middle of the street. It looks odd as he's not masked by a tree like he was when he was watching Laurie & her mother once Laurie got home. I also think when he walked away it looked a little goofy as it was the only time I felt his height didn't work in the movie and he looked a little awkward. I believe this was changed in the theatrical version though.

• The rape, like pretty much everyone else, was just stupid and was purely a thoughtless plot device on how he escapes. We don't any resolution with the Ismael Cruz character which I know was different in the final version. I did like the "walking through the grounds" he does after his escape and his little turn to look back at Smiths Grove (not sure if this is still in).

• There being no reason as to why Lynda and Bob were at the Myers house (I believe some dialog in the theatrical gives a clue as to why they go there, but here at was just random).

• The ending was a little flat to me. The cops shoot out was like a lesser version of the Halloween 4 ending but I did like Loomis looming over a dead Michael.

There are other really minor things but nothing major. I'd give the workprint either a 6.5 or 7 out of 10.

EvilOnTwoLegs
09-03-2007, 09:11 AM
The things I didn't like about the workprint - I'm sure some are still in the final cut, but my location dictates I am yet to see it:

• When the girls spot Michael staring at them on the walk home and he is just standing in the middle of the street. It looks odd as he's not masked by a tree like he was when he was watching Laurie & her mother once Laurie got home. I also think when he walked away it looked a little goofy as it was the only time I felt his height didn't work in the movie and he looked a little awkward. I believe this was changed in the theatrical version though.

• The rape, like pretty much everyone else, was just stupid and was purely a thoughtless plot device on how he escapes. We don't any resolution with the Ismael Cruz character which I know was different in the final version. I did like the "walking through the grounds" he does after his escape and his little turn to look back at Smiths Grove (not sure if this is still in).

• There being no reason as to why Lynda and Bob were at the Myers house (I believe some dialog in the theatrical gives a clue as to why they go there, but here at was just random).

• The ending was a little flat to me. The cops shoot out was like a lesser version of the Halloween 4 ending but I did like Loomis looming over a dead Michael.

There are other really minor things but nothing major. I'd give the workprint either a 6.5 or 7 out of 10.
Yeah, everything you mention here is gone, except that Bob and Lynda still do it in the Myers House. But as they're going in, Bob say it's a bummer that they're gonna sell it, and Lynda says it's okay...they'll find another place to party.

Myers Insurance
09-03-2007, 09:12 AM
The Myers house was deserted. No one had been there in a while. Therefore, no one would walk in on them and they wouldn't be interrupted by trick or treaters (side note: where the fuck where the trick or treaters in here? I don't recall seeing any)

spacemountain8
09-03-2007, 09:18 AM
I thought on the workprint that the second half of the movie was far too rushed and didn't flow well at all,so when I went to see the theatrical version I was very happy to see the changes and to hear KISS's God Of Thunder open the movie. One thing I was thinking about. I know Rob is a huge Alice Cooper fan and his daughter was supposed to be in the film. I wonder why her scene got cut? But also I wonder if, on the workprint, when young Michael says" I need to get out of here" if that was supposed to be a tribute to Alice Cooper's "Ballad Of Dwight Frye" (I gotta get out of here,I gotta get out of here!!!!!!!!)

Pug-a-Licious
09-03-2007, 09:22 AM
I thought it was funny and gave us development on Lynda to sure she doesn't like to be messed with.


Really? I thought it made her look like an even bigger bitch than I already thought she was. To me it wasn't funny, just looked mean.

Myers Insurance
09-03-2007, 09:23 AM
In my experience, cheerleaders usually are bitchy, so the scene seemed realistic.

D Adams
09-03-2007, 09:25 AM
Yeah ...Lynda and Bob choose the Myers house because it is always vacant and they wouldn't be interrupted. Obviously, they didn't know Michael would return home ... heh.

There were trick or treaters ...... just a few. Or maybe I am thinking of the WP and not the theatrical version? I"m getting confused now, lol :p

The WP does give Michael a bit more of a "human" side ... especially when Loomis and Laurie get through to him and he lets Laurie go and "drops" the knife ..... However, this is not in line with how Michael is portrayed in the 78' version.

Zombie's Michael doesn't want to kill Laurie, in my opinion. If he did, he could have killed her when he dragged her out the bathroom or when he carried her back to his house.....

Pug-a-Licious
09-03-2007, 09:26 AM
In my experience, cheerleaders usually are bitchy, so the scene seemed realistic.

Some are bitchy, true. But I've known more that were NOT bitchy, and would never do such a thing. I guess this just depends on what you interpret from the scene. ;)

Myers Insurance
09-03-2007, 09:26 AM
He didn't want to kill her until she stabbed him with the knife. Once she stabbed him with the knife, he seemed to just think "Bitch, you stabbed me. See if I ever kill another one of your friends again!"

Man In Black
09-03-2007, 09:27 AM
Is the Lynda/Myers house scene still in the same place in the theatrical version as it was in the workprint (after Myers watches Annie & Lindsey go to the Doyle house) or was it moved about?

Myers Insurance
09-03-2007, 09:28 AM
I read it was the same street.

EvilOnTwoLegs
09-03-2007, 09:29 AM
Is the Lynda/Myers house scene still in the same place in the theatrical version as it was in the workprint (after Myers watches Annie & Lindsey go to the Doyle house) or was it moved about?
I don't recall.

SLAB
09-03-2007, 09:30 AM
Yeah, I agree with the thought of his intent never being to kill her. He just wanted to find the one good thing from his life. When he does, and she stabs him, that's it. He has nothing left and she's done like dinner.

Still, I guess hearing her beg to let him go in this version got to him. For the record, I prefer the workprint ending. It gives closure, and that last shot with the recording just nails it for me.

Myers Insurance
09-03-2007, 09:32 AM
Back when the whole tape recorder plot was there, it was supposed to end with Michael and his mom's dialouge. I think that would've worked better than the audio from the meeting. Though that might've been because that dialouge annoys me for some reason.

D Adams
09-03-2007, 09:50 AM
He didn't want to kill her until she stabbed him with the knife. Once she stabbed him with the knife, he seemed to just think "Bitch, you stabbed me. See if I ever kill another one of your friends again!"


LOL!!! Yall are too funny :D

Man In Black
09-03-2007, 09:55 AM
Sorry to bring this scene up but it makes me laugh...I was recently watching "Eddie Murphy: Delerious" and in it he does an impression of "Fat Elvis" with his butt sticking our and his torso sort of lumbering forward on an angle and his arms swinging. When I see MM walking away once the girls shout him down in the workprint just reminds me of that:D The silliest things tickle me sometimes:)

101ant101
09-03-2007, 09:56 AM
I'm glad they cut out most of the parts with Lynda being such a bitch for absolutely NO reason to the other kids (other than she was in a bad mood) and pouring their drink on them...pointless and it really made me dislike her.

that made me luagh in the WP

D Adams
09-03-2007, 09:57 AM
Yeah, I agree with the thought of his intent never being to kill her. He just wanted to find the one good thing from his life. When he does, and she stabs him, that's it. He has nothing left and she's done like dinner.

Still, I guess hearing her beg to let him go in this version got to him. For the record, I prefer the workprint ending. It gives closure, and that last shot with the recording just nails it for me.


I still wonder if he would have killed her or just tried to "keep her" ...... However, this is a major character change from the 78' Michael. He is bent on *killing* Laurie in JC's version...not so much in RZ's version.

I very much prefer the WP ending .... I can't say enough how much I loathe the extended theatrical pursuit through the house, tearing up of the ceiling (to find her) and then both of them going off the balcony ...... Just a waste of precious film time ...... You know that 10 min could have been used to put in other WP cuts that added to the eerie feel or suspense build up....

Monte
09-03-2007, 09:57 AM
Sounds like a whole other movie could be cut together for the DVD.

"Wake Up, Michael Myers"

101ant101
09-03-2007, 10:01 AM
maybe well get a halloween cut and Wp dvd 2 different dvds

Halloween444
09-03-2007, 10:07 AM
The Workprint was awesome why it was not in the T-cut those great scene of Loomis walking with classic carpenter theme or Myers outside of Smith grove talking with loomis or again Clint howard and Tom towles discussing the myers case at the tv news station and there are a lot to name but im not gonna go there im just dissapointed this version got ejected from the Theater its so better.

Villain612
09-03-2007, 10:16 AM
Loomis: I managed to persuade the suits to let you come outside and sit out in the garden. Alright... garden... its hardly a charming place but at least there's a bit of greenery because I am your friend.

Michael: I need to get out of here.

Loomis: You know I've been your friend since the very beginning. I've tried to help you.

Michael: I need to get out of here.

Loomis: I've really tried to help you. Hence this, getting outside and sitting in the garden. Its really quite pleasant.

Michael: I need to get out of here.

Loomis: Quite nice weather, really. Isn't it?

Michael: I need to get out of here.

Loomis: Yes... that's not gonna happen for a while Michael. I'm afraid you'll be going nowhere.

Michael: I have nothing else to say.


I really can't get over this scene and how well it works. Its evolved into my favorite scene and its not even in the final version of the movie. That's too bad.

D Adams
09-03-2007, 10:19 AM
Ok, it was Clint Howard that I saw and thought he was from JC's POD.... However, I was right about Anne Marie Howard from JC's POD http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0397121/ She plays a tv news reporter in the WP version .... Is that segment still in the theatrical version? I can't remember.

I really love all the cameos of actors from various other horror films :p

101ant101
09-03-2007, 10:22 AM
The Workprint was awesome why it was not in the T-cut those great scene of Loomis walking with classic carpenter theme or Myers outside of Smith grove talking with loomis or again Clint howard and Tom towles discussing the myers case at the tv news station and there are a lot to name but im not gonna go there im just dissapointed this version got ejected from the Theater its so better.

there was better scenes in there like when micheals walking upto the stodes house that bulids the attention

The Dark Shape
09-03-2007, 10:22 AM
I generally prefer the theatrical version. Scenes are edited better. I love Loomis hugging Michael in the institution, and his explanation about the color black. I miss "Am I going to die of old age in here?" The Laurie/Annie/Lynda segment improves dramatically in the T-Cut because of some added bits. We actually see Annie and Brackett as father and daughter. Lynda has her "Do you think I'm a slut?" moment. Etc.

The workprint's ending is much better.

D Adams
09-03-2007, 10:22 AM
Villain612, I agree ..... and we could have picked up the time to add this back in had they not wasted the theatrical ending with that stupid house pursuit of Laurie ....

Halloween444
09-03-2007, 10:23 AM
Loomis: I managed to persuade the suits to let you come outside and sit out in the garden. Alright... garden... its hardly a charming place but at least there's a bit of greenery because I am your friend.

Michael: I need to get out of here.

Loomis: You know I've been your friend since the very beginning. I've tried to help you.

Michael: I need to get out of here.

Loomis: I've really tried to help you. Hence this, getting outside and sitting in the garden. Its really quite pleasant.

Michael: I need to get out of here.

Loomis: Quite nice weather, really. Isn't it?

Michael: I need to get out of here.

Loomis: Yes... that's not gonna happen for a while Michael. I'm afraid you'll be going nowhere.

Michael: I have nothing else to say.


I really can't get over this scene and how well it works. Its evolved into my favorite scene and its not even in the final version of the movie. That's too bad.




Exactly what I tought this scene was so awesome too bad it was cut from the Theater wish to see it on the dvd tought.

The Dark Shape
09-03-2007, 10:24 AM
I'm glad it was cut. Too obvious.

D Adams
09-03-2007, 10:24 AM
there was better scenes in there like when micheals walking upto the stodes house that bulids the attention


YES, that is one that I talked about to no end ... that was a huge suspense build up when starts that walk (from across the street) & approaches Mr. Strode and their house...

101ant101
09-03-2007, 10:33 AM
YES, that is one that I talked about to no end ... that was a huge suspense build up when starts that walk (from across the street) & approaches Mr. Strode and their house...

yep and i love the bit were hes tilting his head and looking at that girl. ans shes watcthing the movie that had me thinknig OH she might die

D Adams
09-03-2007, 10:55 AM
yep and i love the bit were hes tilting his head and looking at that girl. ans shes watcthing the movie that had me thinknig OH she might die

Yeah, except we are yet to see Michael harm a child ...... even if they are "indirectly" in the way of his object ....

We needed a couple of head tilts to remind of us the 78' Michael ...

Also, in the WP, after my second viewing, did anyone notice that Michael picked up the documents that Laurie pushed through the mailbox (at his house) and "smelled them", then opened his eyes as if , at that moment, he realized who Laurie was and his eyes were glued to her presence.....

Silverpsycho
09-03-2007, 10:59 AM
I am very pleased there is no nasty rape scene, as I would have been disgusted. However, I must admit I am not fond of either ending.

To be quite honest, I like most differences in the workprint compared to the theatrical choices. The only exception being an awful rape scene really. I like how the workprint has Ismael and Loomis live, so maybe that is why I seem to like the workprint more overall.

The workprint is definitely a step up from the first draft and then some of the choices in the theatrical cut are a step down. I hope all versions with the alternate scenes are released onto dvd. Anyone think it will be a two-disc set or maybe a well-made flipper? I hate flippers but if it contained both versions, I'd be ok with it I guess.

I am pretty happy with the theatrical cut, but that ending was just pretty disappointing to me. I wasn't expecting something grand or over-the-top, but I didn't want something so simple as the details give out in the workprint. Then again, I am not quite sure what I wanted. It just sounds like the overall gist of the workprint would have made for a slightly better film and was more in favor of the type character Myers really is.

Thurisaz
09-03-2007, 11:02 AM
Is the Lynda/Myers house scene still in the same place in the theatrical version as it was in the workprint (after Myers watches Annie & Lindsey go to the Doyle house) or was it moved about?

No, it was moved. I believe that it's now the very first scene when the movie hits night time. I'm glad it was moved because in the workprint you have Michael at the Wallace's, then back at his house, and then back at the Wallace's which was really stupid.

Myers-89
09-03-2007, 11:04 AM
I'm really glad that Rob changed the ending in the theatrical version. Not that the workprint's ending was bad, but it reminded me a little too much of Halloween 4. I felt the theatrical ending was more ominous.

Man In Black
09-03-2007, 11:04 AM
No, it was moved. I believe that it's now the very first scene when the movie hits night time. I'm glad it was moved because in the workprint you have Michael at the Wallace's, then back at his house, and then back at the Wallace's which was really stupid.


Thanks man. I remember reading the wikipedia plot description which made it sound like it happened prior to to even the Strode's getting it.

Thurisaz
09-03-2007, 11:08 AM
Thanks man. I remember reading the wikipedia plot description which made it sound like it happened prior to to even the Strode's getting it.

Yeah, it did if I remember correctly.

Man In Black
09-03-2007, 11:11 AM
Good. I hated that in the WP. Having him stalk Annie and Lindsey in the house...then watch them cross the street...then go to his house for a bit...wha?:)

101ant101
09-03-2007, 11:11 AM
Yeah, except we are yet to see Michael harm a child ...... even if they are "indirectly" in the way of his object ....

We needed a couple of head tilts to remind of us the 78' Michael ...

Also, in the WP, after my second viewing, did anyone notice that Michael picked up the documents that Laurie pushed through the mailbox (at his house) and "smelled them", then opened his eyes as if , at that moment, he realized who Laurie was and his eyes were glued to her presence.....

yeah thats when he must if remeberd her

Thurisaz
09-03-2007, 11:16 AM
Also, in the WP, after my second viewing, did anyone notice that Michael picked up the documents that Laurie pushed through the mailbox (at his house) and "smelled them", then opened his eyes as if , at that moment, he realized who Laurie was and his eyes were glued to her presence.....

Yes, I did notice that, but I can't clearly remember if it made it into the theater cut. Probably not though.

TheShape'78
09-03-2007, 11:19 AM
i hope that when they release rob zombie's halloween on dvd that they release the workprint on dvd aswell. this situation kind of reminds of the whole h6 p-cut situation, except the p-cut was seen way after the release of its theatrical counterpart.

-mitch-

SSteward
09-03-2007, 11:20 AM
let me just say that I envy those who have seen the workprint version. It sounds to me like the theatrical cut was better, but I still wish I could've seen the workprint. I did see the end scene on youtube from the workprint, and I liked the theatrical ending MUCH better.

101ant101
09-03-2007, 11:21 AM
i hope that when they release rob zombie's halloween on dvd that they release the workprint on dvd aswell. this situation kind of reminds of the whole h6 p-cut situation, except the p-cut was seen way after the release of its theatrical counterpart.

-mitch-

i hope that they get released on a double DVD disc

Man In Black
09-03-2007, 11:23 AM
I'm sure the workprint stuff will be on the DVD (along with a shit load of other deleted stuff we've never seen - Loomis at the adoption agency, etc)

Myers Insurance
09-03-2007, 11:23 AM
i hope that when they release rob zombie's halloween on dvd that they release the workprint on dvd aswell. this situation kind of reminds of the whole h6 p-cut situation, except the p-cut was seen way after the release of its theatrical counterpart.

-mitch-

The p-cut of H6 was released while H6 was still in theatres.

Masked Killa
09-03-2007, 11:23 AM
i agree with a lot and say i hope they release like a longer version with scenes from both. i like how udo kier and clint howard had longer roles than oh heres 10 seconds goodbye. i give both movies 2.5 out of 4

Casper
09-03-2007, 11:25 AM
When i seen the workprint before the theatrical, i was pretty dissapointed because i didnt like the way it ended, but the new ending in the theaters was great. I beleive rob changed it for good reasonings

TheShape'78
09-03-2007, 11:29 AM
The p-cut of H6 was released while H6 was still in theatres.

i know, but a select amount of people had it on vhs tapes in very low quality. nothing like w/ rob zombie's WP, but alot of that is due to the fact that we are in the internet age so things get around quicker. the p-cut didn't become real wide spread until dvd's became popular and those select people transferred their vhs copies to dvd and started selling them. it is a bit of a different situation, not alot of people could get their hands on the p-cut vhs back in the day, where as thanx to the internet a large amount of people saw RZ WP easily.

-mitch-

101ant101
09-03-2007, 11:30 AM
I'm sure the workprint stuff will be on the DVD (along with a shit load of other deleted stuff we've never seen - Loomis at the adoption agency, etc)

i hope that does happen.

101ant101
09-03-2007, 11:35 AM
when do you think it will come out on DVD? i'd say before xmas but then again maybe next halloween

Worthystevens
09-03-2007, 11:36 AM
I just saw the rape scene, and I agree with most here. Cutting it was the right decision. Not because of the rape itself (although it did cross the 'white trash' border), but because it made Michael come off as a hero.

MichaelJrdnMyrs
09-03-2007, 11:39 AM
Buried within these two movies and footage that didn't make either version, I bet there's a halfway respectable version to be found.

Egh, maybe quarterway.

101ant101
09-03-2007, 11:41 AM
I just saw the rape scene, and I agree with most here. Cutting it was the right decision. Not because of the rape itself (although it did cross the 'white trash' border), but because it made Michael come off as a hero.

lol every devil has a soft side HAHA. but yeah it made micheal become a softy

TheShape'78
09-03-2007, 11:44 AM
i just saw the workprint ending, and i have to say i like it a lot more than the theatrical ending. i found it more effective especially w/ the soundbites of young michael and loomis talking, it was really emotional where as the theatrical ending wasn't really. they should have used it. i know they want sequels and that is why it was changed, but it was still a better ending. i really want to see the entire workprint.

-mitch-

Fiberawptic
09-03-2007, 11:54 AM
Did anyone else not like the part in WP where michael rushes the lauries dad and slits the throat? I loved it.

Heres what it should be, it should be the theatrical version with the following scenes added from the WP: The garden scene, extended graveyard scene, anything that would extend the act where we meet laurie and the girls except the annie dumping the drink scene, more shots of "shape-like michael' watching the girls, loomis talking to proffessor about speech, and michael charging the dad and slitting his throat.

This would make the movie from a 7 or 8 on my list, to a 9 or 10... But its cool, because there will probably be a DVD with Deleted Scenes...

101ant101
09-03-2007, 11:58 AM
that was one of my fav scnes why was it cut out

D Adams
09-03-2007, 11:59 AM
Did anyone else not like the part in WP where michael rushes the lauries dad and slits the throat? I loved it.

Heres what it should be, it should be the theatrical version with the following scenes added from the WP: The garden scene, extended graveyard scene, anything that would extend the act where we meet laurie and the girls except the annie dumping the drink scene, more shots of "shape-like michael' watching the girls, loomis talking to proffessor about speech, and michael charging the dad and slitting his throat.

This would make the movie from a 7 or 8 on my list, to a 9 or 10... But its cool, because there will probably be a DVD with Deleted Scenes...

LOL ... I just got into a big exchange about that scene with Mason Strode and how much I missed Michael's full out approach from across the street to the Strode house, Mr. Strode seeing Michael, even talking to him, yet Michael doesn't break stride and continues to move forward , then slashes his forehead. Yes, I thought it was the throat as well, but someone posted the PICTURE (proof) that it was a slash of the forehead which I confirmed by rewatching the scene as well...

There were tons of nuances in the WP that really should have been in the theatrical version ...and I am one of group that wanted the WP ending, not the 10 min waste of time (house pursuit of Laurie) in the theatrical release...

MichaelJrdnMyrs
09-03-2007, 12:00 PM
Did anyone else not like the part in WP where michael rushes the lauries dad and slits the throat? I loved it.



Yeah, that was way better. Not all that much suspense, but just a neat off-kilter moment.

The real Shape
09-03-2007, 12:01 PM
I liked Michael appearing out of the bushes and slicing his knife deep into Mason's head. Scared the living fuck out of me.

D Adams
09-03-2007, 12:03 PM
let me just say that I envy those who have seen the workprint version. It sounds to me like the theatrical cut was better, but I still wish I could've seen the workprint. I did see the end scene on youtube from the workprint, and I liked the theatrical ending MUCH better.

Its not that big of a deal .......there is a blog that gives the details of all the differences, with only 2 being really significant ..... the others are relatively minor and it is just a matter of preference on those. I did prefer the shorter WP ending though ....

Monte
09-03-2007, 12:06 PM
What will probably happen is the workprint cut will be divided into material that can be edited into the "unrated" theatrical version and material that will presented as "deleted scenes." I'd like the DVD release to have both versions as full films, but I doubt Dimension will go for that.

101ant101
09-03-2007, 12:06 PM
i dont that w/p ending to me look like that was it micheals dead for end of

The real Shape
09-03-2007, 12:08 PM
i dont that w/p ending to me look like that was it micheals dead for end of

I understood this up until the part michaels

MichaelJrdnMyrs
09-03-2007, 12:11 PM
What will probably happen is the workprint cut will be divided into material that can be edited into the "unrated" theatrical version and material that will presented as "deleted scenes." I'd like the DVD release to have both versions as full films, but I doubt Dimension will go for that.

In the future I foresee a lot of "fan-edited" versions, since opinions are so split about what is good and what isn't.

RazorBlade101
09-03-2007, 12:11 PM
I saw the other ending ... I'm glad they used the ending they did.

101ant101
09-03-2007, 12:12 PM
sorry i need to clear that up.

it looked like micheal is dead and isn't coming back at all witch to me is a shame

jigsaw_dude
09-03-2007, 05:00 PM
I didn't like the rape scene in the workprint, not nessasarly because of the rape itself, but it just felt so pointless and stupid, like it really didn't feel like it belonged there. Oh and like someone else said here, it sort of portrayed Michael as sort of an anti-hero, and that's not good.

scoob
09-03-2007, 05:04 PM
The first time I watched this I was left feeling numb. I'm not sure why, maybe the fact I felt I had cheated in watching this before it opens here in October. But more likely that I just had watched a version of something I have been watching evolve for the last year or so. So, my first viewing as expected in a way, left me feeling kind of emotionless - or too over emotional for me to deal with seeing another Halloween film.

Anyway, I have since seen this six times now and I find this particular version a good entertaining film. It has many flaws but since I have not seen the theatrical version yet, I cant compare or complain too much about what I have seen here.

At first, the vulgarity and sheer crudeness of the first 10 minites kind of dumb founded me the first time I watched it. I was left pretty much thinking " Jesus Christ, this is exactly what was in that leaked draft and ..." before I was hit with another diabolical line about Michael's sister cum guzzling, or just plain bad dialouge in which Judith says something about her daddy being in heaven just before getting it on with her boyfriend.

It wasnt the words that hit home, more or less the dialouge that went along with it. It just sounded bad. But, now after a couple or six views, the scene/s do not improve in delivery terms of the lines but I understand that this just painting a picture of the Myers household in RZ's world. I dont like it, but it's not my vision. It's his film and in all honesty, it works because it did give me that feeling of numbness/shock.

Anyway I could jabber on forever on small details but I do like the first act. I think it works really well, the killing of the bully was great and I love the way Zombie created that in the woods. I like all the killing scenes but especially the beating Steve got over the head with the baseball bat - Micheal really gave that guy some.
Thought the first act in all, was well put together and Deag was excellent. Sherri really shone for me in the second act of the film which is hands down, classic for me.

The sanitarium scenes are something I have looked forward to more then anything else and after watching the scenes in the workprint, I wish they went on longer. It's good they didnt because then they probably wouldnt have had that effect on me, so I think they were perfectly paced. Leave you wanting more is always a good thing.

The moment Loomis sits down with Michael, the music in the background lingers and builds up menacingly as do the clips we are to see until the nurse killing. It is a real highlight, the 15ish minites or so that Michael, Loomis and Deborah spend in the asylum are just classic to me right now. My favourite, without a doubt, Loomis and Michael in the garden. Everything about that scene was perfect and I am really sad to hear it has been cut. It was such an important scene for me, the moment Michael truly shuts down.
Loved Danny Trejo's character and his little speech to Michael.

Another thing I loved was when we see Michael's room for the first time as an adult. The way it was filmed was superb and the music, again I hope it hasnt been altered too much, was so fitting it gave me goosebumps. And Im 27.
Another great shot is of Michael being escorted from distance by Trejo and Lew Temple before getting his transfer denied.

The escape, well Im glad it has been changed. I have not seen it yet but anything has to beat the piss poor scene that was in this version. I'm not offended by rape scenes and this one was not particually brutal - check out Death Wish 1 or 2 - but it unlike the films I mentioned, this scene is just ridiculous. I hope, well Im pretty sure after reading on here for the last few days, that Michael just dosnt escape that easily either. I mean here he kills two idiots and then in the next scene he is outside walking off.
Security needs to tighten up. But that scene where Michael is walking out and looks back was good, just weakened by the thought of how the hell did he just get out so easily?

Act 2 was definitly my favourite as I said, and the third act wasnt too bad but it was a bit of a mad rush to say the least.
It was nice to see Michael as well all know him and Tyler Mane did a great job. It is the best Michael Myers I have seen since the original.
There is a scene where Laurie enters the house and finds Annie and whilst she is calling for help, the door closes and Myer's mask reveals itself from the darkness before he starts to toy with hung up Paul.

I dont want to go on any further at the moment because this is getting a little longer then expected, I only wanted to drop a couple of points.

I didnt like the characters of Lynda or Annie. Well, maybe Annie to a point. But Lynda was just an over the top standard hate me and kill me character. Laurie was potentially good, it just needed to get rid of that ridiculous bagle scene and when she is laughing along with Lynda after she just throws a fit about her cheerleading.
I think all three did well considering the dialouge they were given, which was a little off to say the least.

McDowell was the character I liked the most. I think he did a near excellent job and I enjoyed every scene he was in. Brad Douriff, wow, what a shame he was in this for so little. Another potentially great character given very little time. In what time he had, he and McDowell did well and I look forward to seeing the little scenes they actually have.

I liked the chase at the end, I actually will be in the minority here but I did enjoy the mask reveal ( although I dont partically like Halloween 5 ) and thought that it was a nice change of events.
Leading up to the ending, I loved the pool scene and even the finale which I am quite dissapointed has been dropped. I thought it brought closure to the film and made the Loomis character stand out a lot more.

There are enough flaws in this to fill 8 films, but for what I have seen, I enjoyed it. The music, although I know is completly altered in the theatrical version, I thought was fantastic. I hope that that Tyler Bates score whenever Myers seems around - it's like a low bass that groans - is included as it helps you feel a bit more dread then usually watching a Halloween film.

I cant compare this to the original. It reminded me of it, sure, but I just thought " That's a nice touch". If I compared it, then of course, this one sinks like a stone but on its own, I think it's a pretty good film. Flawed, but entertaining.
I will be there at the cinema in October on opening night and again on the 31st.

All in all, I give it a 6.5 out of 10 .

Masked Madman
09-03-2007, 05:11 PM
What is the difference between the WP killing of Mason and the T-Cut?

scoob
09-03-2007, 05:22 PM
Michael watches as Annie picks up Laure before walking up to Mason, who is looking elsewhere.
He notices Michael approaching, is shocked, thinks it is an over grown trick or treater I guess, before getting slashed and forced inside the house.
The following scene shows no murders though, that kind of sucked.

ColadaSplash
09-03-2007, 11:29 PM
I think Mason's death plays out better in the workprint. It's also better shot. The theatrical murder was obviously put there to get a quick jump out of people. It did work, but I do like the workprint's setup better.

Thinking about this, I do enjoy the workprint's ending better because it was actually kind of sad. It also makes more sense when dealing with the film's thematic narrative, and adds to what Rob Zombie was trying to go for. It's his ending, and it should have remained intact. The theatrical ending is ridiculous (obvious studio tinkering); they should have used that 10 extra minutes to add some meat and pad out the overall story in the film's second half.

I really hope Rob decides to do a "Director's Cut" for the DVD. It will allow him the extra running time he needs to pad this film out. He has to be disappointed in some of the changes that were made, so I hope he goes ahead and does a D.C.

Villain612
09-03-2007, 11:42 PM
I think Mason's death plays out better in the workprint. It's also better shot. The theatrical murder was obviously put there to get a quick jump out of people. It did work, but I do like the workprint's setup better.




I definitely like that in the workprint you see Michael follow Laurie to their house so you can see how he knows where she lives. In the T-cut, he just appears there.

ColadaSplash
09-03-2007, 11:52 PM
Ask and you (or I guess "I") shall receive... I just found this:

August 31st, 2007

""There will probably be a director's cut but not necessarily based upon violence," Zombie said recently."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/entertainment/5096929.html

---------------

I'm looking forward to seeing what he does with it. Hopefully it pans out.

ChrisYorkville
09-04-2007, 12:47 AM
Am I the only one that loves the workprint version of the girls leaving school and the walk home with michael following Laurie up to the house at the end?

punkrocklove
09-04-2007, 01:54 AM
Do you see Lauries Mums death in the theatrical?

ChrisYorkville
09-04-2007, 02:26 AM
Do you see Lauries Mums death in the theatrical?

Yup. It would have been good with the workprint of michael walking up to the house and killing mason and having the mothers death from the theatrical.

Kinick
09-04-2007, 03:01 AM
To those who said the rape scene portrayed Michael as a sort of anti-hero...i didn't get that feeling when watching it. He let the rape happen, the two scumbags take their turns, and he see's his chance to escape (when they're all crazed up and messing with his masks) But i do agree it should've been cut.

I hope we do get a director's cut on dvd, but i don't think we'll get exactly the workprint (i'm sure Rob's finding out what the hardcore fans liked and didn't like by just reading a few reviews etc.)

nwiser
09-04-2007, 03:03 AM
Thinking about this, I do enjoy the workprint's ending better because it was actually kind of sad. It also makes more sense when dealing with the film's thematic narrative, and adds to what Rob Zombie was trying to go for. It's his ending, and it should have remained intact. The theatrical ending is ridiculous (obvious studio tinkering); they should have used that 10 extra minutes to add some meat and pad out the overall story in the film's second half.

I feel pretty much the same way. For a moment Michael, having been reached by Loomis, is no longer the inhuman killer...and the cops just flat out murder him.

krustytheklown
09-04-2007, 05:15 AM
i much preferred the theatrical ending, and the rape scene and the killing of the gaurds at that point was really starting to make michael the protagonist, exactly what RZ said he didnt want to do. i thought the chase from the wallaces, as well as the killings at the strode house were better in the workprint. i liked michael removing the tombstone, instead of sid haig doing a replay of the original. i think the music was alittle more extreme in the workprint and preferred it, if im right about music changes. i preferred bobs killing in the theatrical, just because i love that image. great ending in the theatrical, the workprint ending left me unsatisfied. all in all, ive seen it three times and the workprint once. loved them both.

krustytheklown
09-04-2007, 09:27 AM
I think the best version would be a hybrid of both cuts...with possibly some other deleted material included...then heavily re-edit the last half, so that it doesn't feel so jumpy. That's my take on it.

But damn, am I glad the rape scene came out of the theatrical cut. It's not the content that bugged me, really...it was the fact that it made no fucking sense whatsoever. It was just an excuse to get Myers out...and it stretched credibility to the breaking point.

i agree completely. not only was the rape scene too vulgar, but also turns michael into a full fledged protagonist, a good guy who only kills the wicked. having the nurse in the sanitarium be a bitch to michael was also a mistake. however, your right, there are some things from the workprint that i would love to see added back in. question though. was the tyler bates music any diff from the workprint to theater version? it seemed like the workprint was a little more"extreme" but i might be imagining things. the music was the best of any halloween since the first one either way.

ragethorn
09-04-2007, 09:59 AM
The rape scene was absolutely f'n unnecessary.

I just liked when Michael slowly put on the orange mask and got up, it was f'n dirty. You knew he was ready to rock. I started getting excited. haha!

Sheriff Hoyt
09-04-2007, 11:21 AM
dumb question, but where can I go to see the workprint?

Villain612
09-04-2007, 11:24 AM
Am I the only one that loves the workprint version of the girls leaving school and the walk home with michael following Laurie up to the house at the end?


Yeah... everything except Michael standing in the middle of the street. That looked kinda strange.

SLAB
09-04-2007, 11:24 AM
dumb question, but where can I go to see the workprint?

You won't find out here.

The Kilted One
09-04-2007, 11:28 AM
dumb question, but where can I go to see the workprint?

Run, you poor bastard! RUN!!! ;)

Sheriff Hoyt
09-04-2007, 11:35 AM
ahha sorry guys, thought it was ok to ask now that theres a thread up......

Thurisaz
09-04-2007, 11:39 AM
ahha sorry guys, thought it was ok to ask now that theres a thread up......

Yeah, this thread is for discussion. Any :yar:ing will have to be done off of this board.

Hall9ween
09-04-2007, 11:44 AM
Sorry if its already been said, but what exactly is the theatrical ending?

Does it have the same empty pool bit, because that was cool. But the workprint ending with the Jason Goes To Hell style shooting of Myer's was ridiculous.

Hall9ween
09-04-2007, 11:46 AM
Also, did I miss something when Michael's hair was blonde when he was a kid, but black when he was grown up? Did he dye it or something..?

TheShape'78
09-04-2007, 11:48 AM
it isn't black when he is older. it was long and dirty blonde.

-mitch-

jigsaw_dude
09-04-2007, 11:48 AM
ahha sorry guys, thought it was ok to ask now that theres a thread up......

Sorry dude, but asking where to get the workprint is like asking a cop for weed, it's not very smart. Keep it to PM's and emails.

Hall9ween
09-04-2007, 11:49 AM
it isn't black when he is older. it was long and dirty blonde.

-mitch-


Oh right OK. Well I did stop paying my full attention by that point...

Michael_Kennedy
09-04-2007, 11:59 AM
Sorry if its already been said, but what exactly is the theatrical ending?

Does it have the same empty pool bit, because that was cool. But the workprint ending with the Jason Goes To Hell style shooting of Myer's was ridiculous.

See a review thread for an actual description, as I'd rather not post it here, but, yes, it does have the pool bit. I will say that it's basically a long chase through (and above) the Myers house. It culminates into something marginally similar to the ending of the original Halloween, though it has far, far less "impact" to me.

The Dark Shape
09-04-2007, 01:56 PM
it isn't black when he is older. it was long and dirty blonde.

-mitch-

Brown actually. I have dirty blond hair. Adult Michael had brown hair.

jigsaw_dude
09-04-2007, 01:58 PM
He's right. Besides, hair doesn't always stay the same color. Mine started out blonde and at around 8 years old it turned brown.

Last_Halloween
09-04-2007, 03:22 PM
Same here. My hair was REALLY blond and it turned brown when I was about five or six. I think it has to do with how much sun you get?

TheShape'78
09-04-2007, 03:25 PM
Brown actually. I have dirty blond hair. Adult Michael had brown hair.

oh ok, must've been light brown then. thanx


He's right. Besides, hair doesn't always stay the same color. Mine started out blonde and at around 8 years old it turned brown.

yeah my hair was light brown when i was little, but now it is really really dark brown.... almost black.

-mitch-

Shamrock Silver
09-04-2007, 04:21 PM
If you pirate films,
I hope you go to jail someday.

metaldrumz
09-04-2007, 04:22 PM
If you pirate films,
I hope you go to jail someday.

LOL....

Last_Halloween
09-04-2007, 04:24 PM
WHOOPSIE.

Actually, I've never it. And really don't care.

DarthMyers
09-04-2007, 06:27 PM
While I felt neither film was great. I prefer the workprint version. It was more cohesive and had some great scenes that were sorely missed in the theatrical cut. Also there were scenes added to the theatrical that were pure crap.

Detroitking02
09-04-2007, 06:49 PM
I liked the ending of the workprint it was pretty interested to see dr.loomis get through michael myers and dr.loomis got michael to drop the knife and let laurie go . I really didnt like in the final version when loomis says i failed u and michael just smash his skull

TheShape'78
09-04-2007, 07:10 PM
I liked the ending of the workprint it was pretty interested to see dr.loomis get through michael myers and dr.loomis got michael to drop the knife and let laurie go . I really didnt like in the final version when loomis says i failed u and michael just smash his skull

i agree completely. the WP ending is more effective.

-mitch-

Deckard
09-04-2007, 07:12 PM
Just got finished watching the workprint version- quick note, I don't condone bootlegging (and I've already denied three people the copy cause they haven't seen it in theaters yet) but I had to see this, and the first time I try to get something like this I think I've ruined my computer...right before being given a copy...go figure- and I liked it better than the theaterical version...and I really liked the theaterical version. Still though, the news of a director's cut from ZOmbie's own mouth makes me very excited. Hopefully he doesn't release just the workprint though...I really hope he fine tunes it. There are things about both that when combined would make a movie that is more than just awesome, but truly great.

Things I'd like to see: Lynda's death was suddenly early in the theatrical cut, but seeing it later in the game during the workprint made less sense. Why would michael be at lauries house, and be over in that area- then suddenly back at his house. It made more sense that he;d kill Lynda in his house when she got there then went out and about.

Okay, the rape scene wasn't all that...but neither was the escape they have now. So I'd deal with either one.

I liked the new ending, or actually the OLD ending...it felt more in tune with everything else in the film. It really sold Michael as a human character. But I also loved the new ending where Laurie shoots Michael and just screams and the fade to the footage of the two as kids and the music and all...but I'd stick with the old ending cause it just feels better within the film.

I like the use of God of Thunder and the lack of credits in the theatrical version...

I liked everything about the workprint version as far as the girls walking home and everything. With Michael following Laurie home and walking up while she talked with her mom...it was all classic stuff. As was the workprint version of Mason's death...WOW...that was all kinds of awesome. Add the new stuff with the mom and that scene is one for the books. Good God...jeesh.

Bob's death in the workprint was more shocking, but a classic is a classic. I don't care either way.

I DID NOT LIKE THE NURSE BEING A BITCH...FOR GOD'S SAKE, LET HIM KILL SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T DESERVE IT!

I liked the added bits with Udo Kier, throw that back in. And leave the footage of Brackett explaining Laurie's adoption to Loomis in. Any little small character bits leave IN!!!!!!

Are there any other deleted scenes involving Annie, Lynda or most importantly Laurie that isn't being used...if there is, USE IT!

The tombstone bit was awesome...leave it to, and I'd also keep the Loomis at the cemetary stuff too. The scene with Brackett and Loomis in the cemetary was CRAP...something about Douriff was just off. I liked the scene outside the diner or what not MUCH better. McDowell's delivery of the "perhaps I am" bit was better...pretty much it was just played out better. I think even Zombie knew this, and that's why he re-filmed it.

I'm gonna edit my own version together if I have to...Rob, don't make me have to.

Deckard
09-04-2007, 07:13 PM
BTW, what douche bags really gave the old ending a bad grade anyhow? What was wrong with it that made ppl initally dislike it anyway?

TheShape'78
09-04-2007, 07:22 PM
BTW, what douche bags really gave the old ending a bad grade anyhow? What was wrong with it that made ppl initally dislike it anyway?

idk, the WP ending is leaps and bounds better than the T-cut ending. atleast i thought so. i guess they wanted it left open for a possible sequel, cos the WP ending was definitely a closed ending leaving no room for a sequel.

-mitch-

bodian26
09-04-2007, 07:23 PM
The main difference between the Halloween: Workprint and the Halloween: Theatrical is Michael's conscious decisions or lack thereof.

1. In the workprint, Michael tells his mom calmly, "It's over." In the theatre version, this line is omitted, thus giving Michael the darker edge and not allowing him to be so rational.

2. In the workprint, the nurse comments on how Laurie is a cute baby and could not possibly be related to Michael. Michael then slowly takes his fork and kills her.
In the theatre version, the nurse only makes the comment that Laurie is a cute baby, before it cuts away to Dr. Loomis and Michael's mom, and then immediately cuts back when Michael stabs the nurse, thereby showing irrationality on Michael's part.

3. In the workprint, Dr. Loomis takes Michael outdoors exclaiming that it was difficult to get a release to allow him outside and Michael keeps saying he needs to "get out of here." Michael then says, "I have nothing more to say," when Dr. Loomis says he can not do anything about helping Michael in that regard. Michael does not say a word for the rest of the film.
In the theatre version, that scene is replaced with an outdoor scene between Michael and his mom taking a stroll outside where Michael is in good spirts, then the next scene shows Michael no longer talking.
The workprint shows Michael making a conscious choice not to talk anymore.
The theatre version shows Michael as being irrational in his thoughts and actions.

4. The ending in the workprint shows Michael listening to Dr. Loomis and Laurie and setting Laurie free and dropping the knife, as if Dr. Loomis finally was able to break through to him.
The ending in the theatre version shows Michael irrationally grabbing Dr. Loomis and possibly killing him before hunting down Laurie in the house.
Again, the workprint shows Michael thinking and making a conscious decision and the theatre version shows him as a no holds barred monster.

5. In the workprint, Danny Trejo is nice to Michael in the hospital and later on retires and presumbly has a nice life.
In the theatre version, Michael kills him too, as well as most of the hospital staff. The theatre version of Michael does not care who is nice or mean to him when he breaks out, all are disposible.
The workprint version of Michael has a darkened soul.

Obviously there are many small details ommited and added to each of the versions and the perfect Rob Zombie Halloween would be a blending of them, so that both the rational and the irrational sides of Michael Myers can both end and meet.
Only in that occupied space can this film truly be deemed a masterpiece of contemporary horror.

Until then, the people who love it will love it and the others who hate it will hate it, but what this film could truly be is most intriguing (to me anyways).

... Oh, and the opening credits in the workprint kicked ass. That definitely needs to be put back in.

Cameron Cloutier
www.bodianstfilms.com

Deckard
09-04-2007, 07:33 PM
... Oh, and the opening credits in the workprint kicked ass. That definitely needs to be put back in.



I don't know I guess I just don't care either way...lol.

D Adams
09-04-2007, 07:41 PM
Yup. It would have been good with the workprint of michael walking up to the house and killing mason and having the mothers death from the theatrical.


Exactly my thoughts! That would have been perfect......great minds , think alike :p


I think Mason's death plays out better in the workprint. It's also better shot. The theatrical murder was obviously put there to get a quick jump out of people. It did work, but I do like the workprint's setup better.

Thinking about this, I do enjoy the workprint's ending better because it was actually kind of sad. It also makes more sense when dealing with the film's thematic narrative, and adds to what Rob Zombie was trying to go for. It's his ending, and it should have remained intact. The theatrical ending is ridiculous (obvious studio tinkering); they should have used that 10 extra minutes to add some meat and pad out the overall story in the film's second half.

I really hope Rob decides to do a "Director's Cut" for the DVD. It will allow him the extra running time he needs to pad this film out. He has to be disappointed in some of the changes that were made, so I hope he goes ahead and does a D.C.

Oh my, another one that read my thoughts :) How many times have I said that the WP ending was better -- short & sweet. That long ass drawn out T-cut ending - pursuing Laurie back through the house, walls, ceiling and off the balcony was an utter waste of film time. As you said, that 10 min could have been better used to put several cut scenes from the WP *back in* .....

Damn, several of you are ON POINT with my feelings as well :D


Am I the only one that loves the workprint version of the girls leaving school and the walk home with michael following Laurie up to the house at the end?


I loved that as well ... which is why the WP is better , minus the rape, of course ..... Michael looked as if he was about the charge her & her mom in that scene... He started to head across the street but they entered the house ..... There was some mild suspense there.

Deckard
09-04-2007, 07:44 PM
I loved that as well ... which is why the WP is better , minus the rape, of course ..... Michael looked as if he was about the charge her & her mom in that scene... He started to head across the street but they entered the house ..... There was some mild suspense there.

I felt that too...I was like "oh man, he's got some BALLS walking up on them in broad daylight." I was freaking out. WHY DID THEY CUT SOME OF THIS STUFF?

TheShape'78
09-04-2007, 07:45 PM
I felt that too...I was like "oh man, he's got some BALLS walking up on them in broad daylight." I was freaking out. WHY DID THEY CUT SOME OF THIS STUFF?

awesome, sounds like they should've kept that in there.

hey Deckard i sent you a pm.

-mitch-

Deckard
09-04-2007, 07:46 PM
Oh, and the short bit during Loomis's speech about Michael being pure evil made the transition from somewhat fractured Michael to the "pure evil" one attacking the three girls feel more natural...like Loomis knew Michael was completely dead inside.

D Adams
09-04-2007, 07:47 PM
I liked the ending of the workprint it was pretty interested to see dr.loomis get through michael myers and dr.loomis got michael to drop the knife and let laurie go . I really didnt like in the final version when loomis says i failed u and michael just smash his skull

Actually, watch the WP again for that scene. Laurie asks Michael to let her go, and it is then that he releases her. He probably didn't give a flying f*ck about Loomis, but his baby sister begging for her life ... he gave in.

Deckard
09-04-2007, 07:52 PM
Right before the police shoot you can see Michael heading towards Loomis and Laurie...you could take it one of two ways. Either a) he changed his mind or b) he wanted to get in on that embrace. Funny as that sounds, I took it as option b...and man, I'm depressed. Poor Michael. lol

ragethorn
09-04-2007, 07:53 PM
Michael is misunderstood. :mecry:

D Adams
09-04-2007, 07:55 PM
I felt that too...I was like "oh man, he's got some BALLS walking up on them in broad daylight." I was freaking out. WHY DID THEY CUT SOME OF THIS STUFF?

Probably to make that boring ass t-cut ending with the wasted pursuit back through the house, walls and ceiling. That was pure garbage and I got frustrated at how much time was being spent on that segment. There was so much of the WP that could have been left IN in lieu of the t-cut ending.

D Adams
09-04-2007, 07:58 PM
Michael is misunderstood. :mecry:

LOL ... aren't we all? Just the rest of us don't viciously kill, and without reason at times, heh :p

Audioslave
09-04-2007, 08:14 PM
Holy shit. I gave the theatrical a 3/10 (hated it) and then watched the workprint out of morbid curiosity. It's a solid 6. Much better. Literally everything that was cut out of it is good. Fuck the studio for interfering and fuck the test screening process.

PLEASE, Rob, you MUST release this version/director's cut. It has the necessary development missing from the theatrical version, the music is better, it's scarier, the ending makes more sense, etc... it's simply a better film.

Anyone with me? I didn't have time to read this whole thread.

Worthystevens
09-04-2007, 08:25 PM
PLEASE, Rob, you MUST release this version/director's cut.

Call me a conspiracist, but I think he already did.

Audioslave
09-04-2007, 08:27 PM
Call me a conspiracist, but I think he already did.

Yeah, I guess my plea should be directed toward the studio instead. If Rob did in fact leak this version (or had a hand in it) to let us all know he isn't the hack that the theatrical version suggests, then he rules.

TheShape'78
09-04-2007, 08:30 PM
Yeah, I guess my plea should be directed toward the studio instead. If Rob did in fact leak this version (or had a hand in it) to let us all know he isn't the hack that the theatrical version suggests, then he rules.

interesting theory...

-mitch-

Worthystevens
09-04-2007, 08:31 PM
Honestly, the thing had to have been intentionally leaked. It was DVD quality for Christ's sake. And it sounds like something that Rob would do for the fans.

MichaelJrdnMyrs
09-04-2007, 08:33 PM
Yeah, I guess my plea should be directed toward the studio instead. If Rob did in fact leak this version (or had a hand in it) to let us all know he isn't the hack that the theatrical version suggests, then he rules.

I thought so too. But I believe it's probably a disgruntled employee who didn't like what was being changed in the film and wanted to show the world what they were missing.

Maybe that JP guy that was posting here?

Audioslave
09-04-2007, 08:49 PM
I just finished it... The reshoots and cuts ruined the film and it's a shame. At least we know what Rob originally intended... a damn fine film.

D Adams
09-04-2007, 08:51 PM
The full WP with a few minor changes: 1) the escape scene from the t-cut, and 2) Ms. Strode killing from the t-cut, would probably have been perfect ..... thus - leaving all the extra dialogue in, the added stalking of Laurie and the Strodes, the Bob killing in the van (versus the JC copy), the WP killing of Mr. Strode, and the WP ending .......all remain. That would have been much better received, in my opinion :)

njdevs03champs
09-04-2007, 09:04 PM
How do you view the Workprint edition?

Audioslave
09-04-2007, 09:05 PM
How do you view the Workprint edition?

Illegally.

hall0weendream
09-04-2007, 11:26 PM
So I scanned through the WP and I gotta say it's got some awesome deleted scenes. I wish the whole chase from the Wallace to Doyle house would've been used. The theatrical didn't have the teaser trailer scene. I loved seeing Michael right on her trail and they really didn't use that scene to it's full advantage. Little scenes with Laurie being pulled put of the bathroom were extended too. The original ending is def a great ending but I also love the Myers house chase and the new ending too. I think the house chase could've been put into where she's first in the house and then they could've not drug out the ending. Overall this was edited way better. I also prefer the color tone here for the night scenes rather than the more colorless they chose for the T-cut. We all know there will be an unrated or director's cut dvd when released - so let's hope everything from this cut makes it's way back into the film (or atleast as an extend/deleted scene) expect for the rape scene. I think if they would've quite it moreso like this version and mixed in the reshoot scene fans would've excepted it more.

Dark Agent
09-04-2007, 11:42 PM
I think the ending with the cops killing Michael would have been a better ending, I hated the ending in the theatrical version.

Edit: I hope these scenes are added on the DVD release.

ColadaSplash
09-04-2007, 11:48 PM
Honestly, the thing had to have been intentionally leaked. It was DVD quality for Christ's sake. And it sounds like something that Rob would do for the fans.

I thought so too. But, that wouldn't make sense financially. However, Zombie isn't the typical guy, so anything's possible. I just think he probably would have waited until after the film made the bulk of its money. Then again, he was already paid, so he could have been pissed enough about it to not care.

I even joked that maybe Malcolm McDowell leaked it because he sure seemed pissed about the changed ending. :yar: I can understand why. The original ending makes good use of his character (it brings the Loomis/Myers relationship full circle) whereas the theatrical ending basically renders his entire role pointless.

One thing's clear: It's an original copy that was leaked, so it had to be someone very close to it who leaked it. It's someone who had access to the actual film itself, and was trusted to handle the films. Someone definately close to production.

Maybe JP leaked it? LMAO. I used to see him post elsewhere, so that just came across as funny to me.

Well, anything's possible...

unholyinferno
09-05-2007, 12:16 AM
Why does Dimension do that? They never release a movie the way it is intended. They trashed the P-Cut of H6 and they trashed the work-print of RZ's Halloween. It should be about the fans. Give us what we want. Release the H6 P-Cut and make sure Rob Zombie has the work-print and director's cuts on the upcoming Halloween DVD. Does anyone think there will be a sequel to RZ's Halloween. Or will the be the absolute last Halloween?

MikeyMyer$
09-05-2007, 12:41 AM
The theatrical ending of Zombies Halloween was sheer genius. The best ending in the series. You had the two siblings in 1 shot in an emotional scene that captured the very essence of what the movie was all about. Zombie ended the movie with little doubt. The scene where Laurie pulled the trigger and ended up with Michaels blood all over her was excellent. It felt real! And following that scene the portrait of little Michael with baby Laurie filling the screen with the classic Halloween theme blasting from the speakers gave me goose bumps.The entire audience was clapping after that scene. It was GREAT!!! I'm a bigger fan of Michael Myers now than I ever was. The movie just felt real.. A lot of you have trouble grasping the idea that Michael was some what Human in this movie. Well he is and he has emotions just like we all do. I loved this movie. I'm sorry most of you hated it. Keep watching the original..

ragethorn
09-05-2007, 05:34 AM
The theatrical ending of Zombies Halloween was sheer genius. The best ending in the series. You had the two siblings in 1 shot in an emotional scene that captured the very essence of what the movie was all about. Zombie ended the movie with little doubt. The scene where Laurie pulled the trigger and ended up with Michaels blood all over her was excellent. It felt real! And following that scene the portrait of little Michael with baby Laurie filling the screen with the classic Halloween theme blasting from the speakers gave me goose bumps.The entire audience was clapping after that scene. It was GREAT!!! I'm a bigger fan of Michael Myers now than I ever was. The movie just felt real.. A lot of you have trouble grasping the idea that Michael was some what Human in this movie. Well he is and he has emotions just like we all do. I loved this movie. I'm sorry most of you hated it. Keep watching the original..

I completely agree. 100%!

The ending as well. Great ending. Pure grindhouse, shocking, emotional all in one. I don't think it's the best ending in the whole franchise but it's up there.

The workprint ending is gay! If they put the workprint ending in the theatrical cut, then the whole movie is for nothing. Pointless. Why let Laurie go? You chased her the whole movie.

krustytheklown
09-05-2007, 06:05 AM
The theatrical ending of Zombies Halloween was sheer genius. The best ending in the series. You had the two siblings in 1 shot in an emotional scene that captured the very essence of what the movie was all about. Zombie ended the movie with little doubt. The scene where Laurie pulled the trigger and ended up with Michaels blood all over her was excellent. It felt real! And following that scene the portrait of little Michael with baby Laurie filling the screen with the classic Halloween theme blasting from the speakers gave me goose bumps.The entire audience was clapping after that scene. It was GREAT!!! I'm a bigger fan of Michael Myers now than I ever was. The movie just felt real.. A lot of you have trouble grasping the idea that Michael was some what Human in this movie. Well he is and he has emotions just like we all do. I loved this movie. I'm sorry most of you hated it. Keep watching the original..

i agree. the theatrical ending was great. loved it.

krustytheklown
09-05-2007, 06:07 AM
Holy shit. I gave the theatrical a 3/10 (hated it) and then watched the workprint out of morbid curiosity. It's a solid 6. Much better. Literally everything that was cut out of it is good. Fuck the studio for interfering and fuck the test screening process.

PLEASE, Rob, you MUST release this version/director's cut. It has the necessary development missing from the theatrical version, the music is better, it's scarier, the ending makes more sense, etc... it's simply a better film.

Anyone with me? I didn't have time to read this whole thread.

i sort of agree.there are things i liked better in the WP, but i did prefer the ending of the theatrical and the rape scene HAD to go. not only because it was too vulgar, but it established at that point michael myers being a good guy only dispatching people who had it coming, something RZ said he didnt want to happen with his MM.

punkrocklove
09-05-2007, 07:03 AM
If Rob doesn't release the workprint, I'm sure you'll be able to get it on Ebay.

But, I shan't promote illegal-ness! So, you silly people who can't just have one version, will have to make do with theatrical! :P

freethy
09-05-2007, 07:09 AM
You are all probably wondering what Lee "The Elitist" Freeth thinks of all this huh? Well, probably not, but some of you know I am a very hard man to please...lol

I got myself the WP of Halloween. Haven't seen the theatrical version yet because we don't get it till october....which is actually worth the wait because of halloween and the fact that my birthday is on the 30th. So I will probably see it then on the 30th of october as a little birthday treat to myself.

So, in the eye's of someone who has only ever accepted the original movie as canon and the rest as anything from entertaining "H2,H4" to boring "H5" to pointless "H6" to annoying "H20" aznd to blasphemy "H:R" You would assume I am probably about to piss all over "RZH"....So let's beging, aye?

The very fact that this is a new start (and please god a new end) helped me put my bias aside and helped to not even for one minute think about JC's Halloween. The very thought of going into this comparing this to the 1978 original was not even an option. The only way you can compare the two is in class and suspense. In which JC's Halloween once again wins all.

When comparing this to Scream and the post scream generation of shit late 90's and early 00's slasher car wrecks then the new Halloween wins hands down.

The first act worked for me. Young Myers stealing the show and of course one of my favourite british actors "Sir Malcom" as I will now call him just for a laugh, refreshing the role of Loomis.

And never mind Michael being portrade as more human, what about Loomis being portrade as more human?...lol

The characters of Debbie, Ronnie, and Judith where okay. As you would expect from a movie like this there are no award winning performances, but in the grand scheme of things, and this movie being nothing more...OR LESS than just being a little fun, I am quite okay with that.

I enjoyed the part in the woods with Jennifer in the early draft script and was dissapointed it was cut from the movie's. Sure we got the the kid who was being a little unfair to Michael in the bathroom in the woods and got him good, though it wasn't certainly as great as Michael luring a little girl into the woods to her his collection of dead animals he so enjoyed tortering and killing. Maybe on film the sight of him beating a little girl to death may have been a bit much, I can certainly picture it that way. So instead we get a bigger kid with a penis to take the plunge. Over all, the scene was okay because I was worried we wouldn't get any scene in the woods and it was nice to see it in some form or another.

I loved the title sequence too. Easily the best since H4.

I have a problem with the way the mask was introduced for many reasons. I prefered young Michael with his clown mask and thought it was a lot more impressive than seeing him don the shape mask to kill his sister. I mean, It kinda worked when he first put it on and touched her up because for a split second when she turns over to look at him there is a moment of confusion. I would have liked to see her pull it off of him and that'll be the moment he plunged the knife in as he seems to not like it when unmasked against his will. He could have then played out the rest of the scene maskless.

But that wouldn't fix the fact that he took time to hide the mask and the murder weapon only to dig them up later with the mask being in almost pristine condition...Prestine as far as latex thats been left in a damp old house for 17 years.

Now, I have in the past been raided by the police and if they want to find something, then they will.

I think a better intro to the shape mask would have been one of the guys that rape that girl in the sanitarium is wearing it. It's the day before halloween, he knows how crazy Michael is over masks. One of them could have even put it on while they where raping that poor girl... That would have been fucked up and a much better way to go.

In the theatrical version? Maybe Danny Trejo could have got him it before he left his job for some reason. He looked after him and probably the only present he knew Michael would have enjoyed was a mask...lol

Anyway, I am getting ahead of myself here...

The 2nd act was also quite good, however, I think the scene in the drafted script once again when he kills someone for making fun of his masks is better than what we got with the nurse. I can't fix that, but anyway I think the re-writes actually at some points did more harm than good.

Loomis, Michael, and Debbie rule the second act and it's so faced paced that there is no time to get bored. It's almost like the second act is a bunch of snap shots in time and that was really all we needed.

The 3rd act is actually nowhere near as bad as some people where arguing in previous reviews, but then again that was the theatrical version so for all I know they completely fucked it up in the cinama release. Apart from the "Digging up the knife and mask scene" I was suprised at how good some of the shots looked. As much as I think Rob Zombie as a person and as a screen writer seem's a bit silly, he didn't do a bad job at capturing some of the best Halloween shots since dare I say it? the original?

Again the 3rd act is as faced paced as a panther on heat, but I didn't give a fuck. I already have a halloween 1, so whats the point in reworking all the shit from the original? I agree with EOTL that some of the editing was a little chaotic, but again I didn't really give a fuck. I was just happy to see a halloween movie that wasn't leaving me in convulsions, vomiting blood at the shear...whats the word? SHITNESS of Halloween's 5 to 8. In the case of 8...Well can everone do me a favour and not even mention halloween resurrection again? Just wipe it from your minds...Get rid of the H:R forum and ban anyone who even say's the word "Resurrection" on this board. Mike? Matt? I'm looking at you two here...just delete it, it's not like anyone would notice. Fuck, you might even get the nobell prize.

The ending was a sigh of relief. "Yes" I said to myself. "The cunts dead, lets not make anymore halloween movies." Unfortunatly, The theater release as I understand it leaves the chances of making some sequels wide open. What a crock of shit. They will only fuck it up again. A whole new halloween franchise for me to dispise.

All in all, I enjoyed the movie. Both times I watched it I never considered in doing a Debbie Myers by blowing my brains out all over my nice leather sofa.

renee30152
09-05-2007, 07:15 AM
They should have left some of the scenes in.
They should have left in:

17. A scene of Laurie walking to her house where her mother is putting up decorations outside. Michael is seen following her in the background.
This would have set up a more Halloween atmosphere. As there is very little Halloween feel other then a few decorations, two costumes.
21. The chase from the Wallace’s to the Doyle’s is a bit longer
4. The montage of Loomis and Michael getting to know each other has more dialogue/scene snippets
The ending of the workprint. Much better IMHO.

I am glad they left out:
19. After Laurie leaves to baby-sit, we hear Michael breathing as her parents chat. When the mother goes inside, Michael approaches. The father sees him and assumes he is a trick or treater.
It is way more scary to have him come out of the shadows and just attacks the father.
I am glad they left out the rape scene. I hate to see those.

punkrocklove
09-05-2007, 07:23 AM
Did anyone hear the breathing through the mask in the decoration scene?

AMAAZING.

freethy
09-05-2007, 07:25 AM
Glad the rape scene was taken out.

Some of the scenes in the WP should've been in the final version. I love the extended scene with young Michael and Loomis outside- "I've gotta get out of here".

Overall, after watching both, the theatrical cut is definitely better.

I actually like both endings though.

The rape scene is actually leaps and bounds ahead of the escape scene from the theatrical escape scene. The breaking chains and shit belongs in the terminator or something.

punkrocklove
09-05-2007, 07:26 AM
Is young Michael in the theatrical as much as he is the workprint?

krustytheklown
09-05-2007, 07:32 AM
Michael watches as Annie picks up Laure before walking up to Mason, who is looking elsewhere.
He notices Michael approaching, is shocked, thinks it is an over grown trick or treater I guess, before getting slashed and forced inside the house.
The following scene shows no murders though, that kind of sucked.

i liked the WP strode killing, with michael moving up the sidewalk and slashing him. i also did like the fact that they did not show ms.strode getting killed, only alluding to it. i think the more subtle approach at this juncture of the movie was called for. the neck snapping seemed too much, given all the other violence of the movie.

JamieLloydFan
09-05-2007, 07:40 AM
The ending was a sigh of relief. "Yes" I said to myself. "The cunts dead, lets not make anymore halloween movies." Unfortunatly, The theater release as I understand it leaves the chances of making some sequels wide open. What a crock of shit. They will only fuck it up again. A whole new halloween franchise for me to dispise.
.

Could not Agree with you more. I liked the WP Ending (Although yet to see the cinema version) Let as you say it 'The cunt is Dead' Good! Perfect way to end it. I dont want a pile of lame sequels to follow.

EvilOnTwoLegs
09-05-2007, 07:53 AM
The full WP with a few minor changes: 1) the escape scene from the t-cut, and 2) Ms. Strode killing from the t-cut, would probably have been perfect ..... thus - leaving all the extra dialogue in, the added stalking of Laurie and the Strodes, the Bob killing in the van (versus the JC copy), the WP killing of Mr. Strode, and the WP ending .......all remain. That would have been much better received, in my opinion :)
Sorry, but you'd have to leave out the shots of Michael standing in the middle of the street. Cuz come on...it just looks stupid.


LAURIE: "I think that guy's watching us."
(cut to fucking HUGE guy standing in middle of street, staring at them)


Gee, ya fuckin' think so, Laurie?!?!

Seriously, that played much better in the Theatrical.

renee30152
09-05-2007, 07:57 AM
Run, you poor bastard! RUN!!! ;)

Run Forest Run! :bastard:


Sorry dude, but asking where to get the workprint is like asking a cop for weed, it's not very smart. Keep it to PM's and emails.

lol but you would be surprised how many do ask when arrested.


If you pirate films,
I hope you go to jail someday.


And he probably will if he does. They now have dogs who can sniff out pirated films.

EvilOnTwoLegs
09-05-2007, 08:01 AM
You are all probably wondering what Lee "The Elitist" Freeth thinks of all this huh?
Holy shit...Lee didn't hate it. haha

He likes it...hey, Mikey! :p

renee30152
09-05-2007, 08:03 AM
Hey Mikey likes it! :D

freethy
09-05-2007, 10:22 AM
Holy shit...Lee didn't hate it. haha

He likes it...hey, Mikey! :p

Haha! I was as suprised as you.:D I found it kinda refreshing. Like I said it was just a bit of fun and I can live with that. LOL!!

I can't believe people complained about the language in this movie because I hardly fucking noticed it. Where I come from everyone and their grandmother drop the f-bomb in every other sentence. It's just the way people talk. Fuck this, fuck that, fuck you, and "C-U-N-T-YEAH!!" isn't gonna phase anyone where I am from.

Do you think the mods will let me have "C-U-N-T-YEAH!!" as a custom title? It's the new "We're from haddonfield, yell a little louder". Just more in yo face. hahaha

Kinick
09-05-2007, 12:09 PM
Anyone notice the killing of Bob in the workprint was exactly the same as that of Randy in Scream 2, with the killer pulling him into the van and stabbing repeatedly?

Nothing too original there... so Rob duplicates the original instead.haha

JangoJason
09-05-2007, 12:27 PM
Whatsthe deal with Annie in both versions. Why doesn'y Myers kill her,..why is she left alive?

Hall9ween
09-05-2007, 12:30 PM
It was kind of different that they left her to live. But after only seeing the Workprint version so far (as it hasn't been released theatrically in the UK yet), it just seemed awkward that she was left alive. Michael was portrayed as a complete brute when killing other characters, that he seemed to beat Danielle Harris' character to an inch of her life and then leave her. I didn't really get it either..

JangoJason
09-05-2007, 12:33 PM
Maybe Myers sexually assaulted her?!?!?!

Hall9ween
09-05-2007, 12:34 PM
I don't know if the Workprint would have needed a second act of random sexual assualt on a female character.

Joker
09-05-2007, 12:57 PM
I've been wanting to talk about the workprint since i've seen it. So here it is.

I liked it. I thought it was good. Not great but not bad. I never known a film that gets better and better like this one. It starts of bad and I remember on first viewing I thought 'How could of I ever supported Rob on this?'.

The dialogue was bad, just in general, came across very cheap and not what I expected. I thought the character of Ronnie White could of been good if they toned down the swearing and cursing but cringed many a times with Debroah's dialogue.

Luckily, from the school scene onwards, her dialogue improved and I began to actually believe in the character. I even really felt for her in some parts and in all, Sherri Moon deserves much praise.

As for the rape scene, I actually didnt mind it. This is not the original Halloween. It is 2007 and if a rape scene to show the real twisted world that is of psycho killer Michael Myers is needed, then so be it. It's a film, rape etc have been in films many times before and while it was somewhat shocking or disturbing to many, its a horror film.

My favourite scenes were that at the santitarium, most notably the bits where young Michael is screaming that he wants to leave and also the fork-stabbing. The latter being really powerful. If Rob's plan was the show how twisted and evil Michael became then these scenes done it. I couldnt help but feel that Michael was s completely lost soul. Very good stuff.

The ending, well I didnt care much for it but I did'nt hate it either. It gave an definite ending but I didnt get how Michael was shot previous times in the film but got up and then was killed by a sea of bullets.

Pug-a-Licious
09-05-2007, 02:44 PM
My husband had white blond hair when he was little now he has dark brown..so it's not impossible ;)

LeroyTheGreat38
09-05-2007, 04:19 PM
I wonder if the alternate ending will be on the dvd. I want to see the shot of Loomis standing over Michael's body.

MichaelJrdnMyrs
09-05-2007, 04:42 PM
I wonder if the alternate ending will be on the dvd. I want to see the shot of Loomis standing over Michael's body.

Maybe they'll show the full version of that scene, where Loomis pees on Michael's corpse.

EvilOnTwoLegs
09-05-2007, 05:00 PM
Do you think the mods will let me have "C-U-N-T-YEAH!!" as a custom title? It's the new "We're from haddonfield, yell a little louder". Just more in yo face. hahaha
hahahahaha

Probably not...you could always sig it, though. ;)

Glad you (shockingly) didn't loathe it, man. :yeah:



Whatsthe deal with Annie in both versions. Why doesn'y Myers kill her,..why is she left alive?
So she can provide the most effective screams in the entire movie. :nodsmile:

Deckard
09-05-2007, 05:32 PM
Maybe they'll show the full version of that scene, where Loomis pees on Michael's corpse.

*laughs* Wow...I don't think that would fit into the narrative...or would it?

Oh, and I was wondering what everyone preferred- the "God of Thunder" opening music or "Monster Mash" in the WP?

WhiteZombie
09-05-2007, 05:49 PM
*laughs* Wow...I don't think that would fit into the narrative...or would it?

Oh, and I was wondering what everyone preferred- the "God of Thunder" opening music or "Monster Mash" in the WP?

As wicked as Kiss is, Monster Mash is more Halloween

MichaelJrdnMyrs
09-05-2007, 06:03 PM
*laughs* Wow...I don't think that would fit into the narrative...or would it?

Oh, and I was wondering what everyone preferred- the "God of Thunder" opening music or "Monster Mash" in the WP?


I'm torn. Monster Mash seemed almost a little too literal ["I was working in my lab, late one night..." while MM is dissecting his lab rats]. It's not the most fearsome song on the planet either

I think I'd still go with it, despite the KISS song really setting the atmosphere of the house we were about to go into. I don't know, it's a tough call.

Deckard
09-05-2007, 06:06 PM
I just loved the theatrical use of "G O T" because I remember Rob saying something like "as soon as mine begins, you'll think 'man, this is totally different from the original" and when that rocking beat started up I was instantly like "man, this is TOTALLY different from the original"

MichaelJrdnMyrs
09-05-2007, 06:12 PM
I just loved the theatrical use of "G O T" because I remember Rob saying something like "as soon as mine begins, you'll think 'man, this is totally different from the original" and when that rocking beat started up I was instantly like "man, this is TOTALLY different from the original"

I think Thunder should've been played while we see the front of the house, then when we go into the bathroom "Monster Mash" should've been on the radio still.

Best of Both Worlds.

WhiteZombie
09-05-2007, 06:13 PM
I think Thunder should've been played while we see the front of the house, then when we go into the bathroom "Monster Mash" should've been on the radio still.

Best of Both Worlds.

That would have seemed choppy though. To abrupt.

Myers-89
09-05-2007, 06:14 PM
"God of Thunder" all the way. :rock:

Deckard
09-05-2007, 06:18 PM
Oh, and is the reason "Love is Like Oxygen" was cut from the soundtrack because they TOTALLY CUT IT FROM THE MOVIE. Leave the song in there...jeesh, I think "1969" played in the car in the theatrical instead of it. Oh, and did anyone else notice the placement of "Only WOmen Bleed" was different...it played while Laurie and Lynda were walking out of school in the WP...

Kinick
09-06-2007, 03:07 AM
When watching the film over again, the main problem i have is the lack of Halloween atmosphere. I think this has the least Halloweeeny feel since Resurrection...a few decorations, the odd trick or treater.

The opening suggests nothing that it is Halloween day, other than the obvious. I think he could have had Micahel in class with other kids making Halloween decorations etc. No-one even mentions it's Halloween or plan to go to parties or whatever, maybe this didn't happen in the original, but atleast it was referenced once or twice.

WhiteZombie
09-06-2007, 03:51 AM
When watching the film over again, the main problem i have is the lack of Halloween atmosphere. I think this has the least Halloweeeny feel since Resurrection...a few decorations, the odd trick or treater.

The opening suggests nothing that it is Halloween day, other than the obvious. I think he could have had Micahel in class with other kids making Halloween decorations etc. No-one even mentions it's Halloween or plan to go to parties or whatever, maybe this didn't happen in the original, but atleast it was referenced once or twice.

Godamn, really? People are always talking about how cold it it outside. Theres dead leaves everywhere, and each house has tons of decorations. The scene where Laurie is walking Lindsay back to the house is pushing more Halloweeny then the original. I thought this was had one of the best Halloween feels.